Pakistan's Tour of New Zealand - 2020/21

The parallels between Rahane and Shafiq are probably spot on, they've both experienced a similar career trajectory and more or less are facing the same question of 'if you only score a pretty fifty once in a while, what good is your spot for?'. The difference is that Rahane's vital counter-attacking knocks have got a massive platform in the form of Pujara or Kohli making a big score beforehand. Makes sense that Shafiq and to an extent Azhar have declined ever since they've been asked to be the main men instead of supporting acts to the MisYou duo.
 
Bevab said:
The parallels between Rahane and Shafiq are probably spot on, they've both experienced a similar career trajectory and more or less are facing the same question of 'if you only score a pretty fifty once in a while, what good is your spot for?'. The difference is that Rahane's vital counter-attacking knocks have got a massive platform in the form of Pujara or Kohli making a big score beforehand. Makes sense that Shafiq and to an extent Azhar have declined ever since they've been asked to be the main men instead of supporting acts to the MisYou duo.
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Pretty much a spot on post. I think one major difference between India and Pakistan I feel is that while Kohli stands like a giant tree in Indian cricket, there are a lot of other trees of pretty good size in all formats ready to become giant trees. Even if we assume Babar is already that giant tree, I see very little around him. I think India has certainly distanced itself from the 90's time where you get Tendulkar and the fall of that tree was enough to crumble the shrubs around it. I see a lot of that with Pakistan now and I think there is just way too much pressure and hype around Babar. Our problem in India still is that we need a 'face' for every aspect of life. You just look at our government itself. Our PM is a man of brilliance but we get so enamoured by figures that we just make them a monarch. As a matter of convenience, (this includes me by the way) we just blame Kohli for every thing. Yes, he's calling all the shots and they are visibly destructive but it is us who have somewhere contributed in making them so powerful. It's just a sub continent thing. I think the other big two are always all about the team. They have always had the guts to call the BS on their 'poster boys' and as a result their transitions are always smoother because they never make one person bigger than the team or common objective. I think if I had to choose one team that has exemplified this then that is NZ. Kane Williamson is as good a cricketer as any in world cricket and the best captain and leader in the world but the discussions are never surrounded around him. It's always about New Zealand. It doesn't surprise me that no wonder they have one of the best leaders in the world as well. We as a culture in the sub continent need to change our mindset and put the larger picture which is the team in this scenario before all individuals.
 
@AsadRM


This is what I am talking about. It is this mindset. Same thing happens in every sub continent side. Instead of accepting our mistake, we blame everyone and everything else. Lack of professionalism. I am not one of those people who think western culture is a sign of forwardness. Our culture is very beautiful and needs no change whatsoever. But this lack of professionalism, we can learn from the west.

This clown was in the running for national selector.
 
LiveLoveABD said:
This is what I am talking about. It is this mindset. Same thing happens in every sub continent side. Instead of accepting our mistake, we blame everyone and everything else. Lack of professionalism. I am not one of those people who think western culture is a sign of forwardness. Our culture is very beautiful and needs no change whatsoever. But this lack of professionalism, we can learn from the west.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but I don't think the players are the only ones to blame here. I agree with this notion that a 14-day quarantine can be incredibly tough and taxing to a person, especially to their mental health. But the majority of the blame here should be on the people that arranged all of this. Definitely should've chartered a special flight with just the cricketers, straight to Auckland. Definitely should've talked about a more intimate place to stay for quarantine in New Zealand with the folks there, but also, should own up to the mistakes. Going from Dubai to Kuala Lumpur to Auckland increases the chance of human interaction significantly. But all of that is irrelevant if the Covid positive people got the virus from their own stupidity and ignorance because they couldn't help themselves and figured "I'd roam around a bit, what's the worse that could happen". However, I don't think that's what happened. Hard to just assume what happened when you're not there, but I'd be lying if I said I have no faith in my cricketers. I don't think they'd be THAT dumb to do such a thing.

The whole "NZ should be indebted to Pakistan" bit is bullshit. If it weren't Pakistan touring NZ, it'd be someone else. The world doesn't stop if we want it to. Shoaib's whole rhetoric of "How dare you say that about Pakistan" is a bit misplaced too, IMHO. The world is going through a literal pandemic, and if a country that has quite evidently been amongst the best to have handled this situation adheres to a pretty strict protocol which ensures people don't lose their lives, then I think it is a perfectly sensible thing to do.

Although, having spent my entire life in Pakistan, I know how people think here. And Shoaib going off on these "goras" is basically him feeling embarrassed for the nation's cricket team, and subsequently the entire nation because we basically got scolded like children for behaving like children. That's all, he feels embarrassed, and so do I, but my anger isn't misplaced (I hope). The only people that should be given a talking to right now are the players who breached the protocols, and the dumb MF'rs that arranged the logistics of this tour.
 
Na Maloom Afraad said:
I agree with this, but I don't think the players are the only ones to blame here. I agree with this notion that a 14-day quarantine can be incredibly tough and taxing to a person, especially to their mental health. But the majority of the blame here should be on the people that arranged all of this. Definitely should've chartered a special flight with just the cricketers, straight to Auckland. Definitely should've talked about a more intimate place to stay for quarantine in New Zealand with the folks there, but also, should own up to the mistakes. Going from Dubai to Kuala Lumpur to Auckland increases the chance of human interaction significantly. But all of that is irrelevant if the Covid positive people got the virus from their own stupidity and ignorance because they couldn't help themselves and figured "I'd roam around a bit, what's the worse that could happen". However, I don't think that's what happened. Hard to just assume what happened when you're not there, but I'd be lying if I said I have no faith in my cricketers. I don't think they'd be THAT dumb to do such a thing.

The whole "NZ should be indebted to Pakistan" bit is bullshit. If it weren't Pakistan touring NZ, it'd be someone else. The world doesn't stop if we want it to. Shoaib's whole rhetoric of "How dare you say that about Pakistan" is a bit misplaced too, IMHO. The world is going through a literal pandemic, and if a country that has quite evidently been amongst the best to have handled this situation adheres to a pretty strict protocol which ensures people don't lose their lives, then I think it is a perfectly sensible thing to do.

Although, having spent my entire life in Pakistan, I know how people think here. And Shoaib going off on these "goras" is basically him feeling embarrassed for the nation's cricket team, and subsequently the entire nation because we basically got scolded like children for behaving like children. That's all, he feels embarrassed, and so do I, but my anger isn't misplaced (I hope). The only people that should be given a talking to right now are the players who breached the protocols, and the dumb MF'rs that arranged the logistics of this tour.
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It's the PCB. I don't subscribe to this nonsense that the quarantine stuff is too much and all that. It's being done to safeguard everyone. X's stupidity could take Y's life. And our nations where people are not getting two square meals a day, let us ask them if they would stay 14 months in isolation to earn the remuneration these guys earn with all their safety and residential standards taken care of.
 
6 players tested positive with negative results in Pakistan and Dubai. Clearly, there has been a breach of protocol.
 
I agree with how the Pakistan team should've been more responsible in their approach, and how Akhtar is making a mockery of his nation. But a big question is how did they contract the virus? Everyone returned 2 negative tests in Lahore. Boarded an Emirates flight to Dubai and every passenger on Emirates has to have a negative COVID test to board the plane, meaning ideally they can't contract the virus on the plane. Reached Dubai and Kuala Lampur in Emirates' lounges. Then arrived in Christchurch where they were tested again and returned 6 positive tests.

Now there has to be a huge loophole in either the Emirates' setup or the Christchurch airport/ hotel. Yes, NZ hardly has any positive confirmed cases but you never know that who can have the virus, unless they are tested.

Here are some important takeaways:

Players or anyone can get COVID. Even Ronaldo, Salah, Trump etc got COVID.

Players should not have broken the SOPs and should be given a stern word or two from the PCB.

NZ govt should know better than giving out public ultimatums. This is poor. I can bet my house that had it been one of the Big3 nations, NZC, and the government would have been far secretive and respectful in their approach. There has to be a protocol of behavior to a visiting national team. Telling a former world champion side that it is a privilege to come to New Zealand and that they'd be deported doesn't sound too respectful.

PCB should have arranged for a charter flight.

Finally, what Jofra Archer did in the summer was far more dangerous yet we didn't see the same outrage. According to the Health Ministry of NZ, the Pakistan players haven't interacted with anyone outside the bubble, meaning only the players were made vulnerable, not the locals as in Archer's case.

Finally, there are 20 days to go till the series and players can easily recover in the time being.
 
I think there are reports of them sharing food, meet up in hallways etc.
 
AsadRM said:
I agree with how the Pakistan team should've been more responsible in their approach, and how Akhtar is making a mockery of his nation. But a big question is how did they contract the virus? Everyone returned 2 negative tests in Lahore. Boarded an Emirates flight to Dubai and every passenger on Emirates has to have a negative COVID test to board the plane, meaning ideally they can't contract the virus on the plane. Reached Dubai and Kuala Lampur in Emirates' lounges. Then arrived in Christchurch where they were tested again and returned 6 positive tests.

Now there has to be a huge loophole in either the Emirates' setup or the Christchurch airport/ hotel. Yes, NZ hardly has any positive confirmed cases but you never know that who can have the virus, unless they are tested.

Here are some important takeaways:

Players or anyone can get COVID. Even Ronaldo, Salah, Trump etc got COVID.

Players should not have broken the SOPs and should be given a stern word or two from the PCB.

NZ govt should know better than giving out public ultimatums. This is poor. I can bet my house that had it been one of the Big3 nations, NZC, and the government would have been far secretive and respectful in their approach. There has to be a protocol of behavior to a visiting national team. Telling a former world champion side that it is a privilege to come to New Zealand and that they'd be deported doesn't sound too respectful.

PCB should have arranged for a charter flight.

Finally, what Jofra Archer did in the summer was far more dangerous yet we didn't see the same outrage. According to the Health Ministry of NZ, the Pakistan players haven't interacted with anyone outside the bubble, meaning only the players were made vulnerable, not the locals as in Archer's case.

Finally, there are 20 days to go till the series and players can easily recover in the time being.
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I'm sorry but I can in no way agree with anything that you've mentioned.

  • Pretty sure this isn't the first time the Pakistani players have contacted the virus before an international tour. The English players got it after their international games whilst in the far more relaxed environment of domestic cricket in the burgeoning second wave. The other ones I can think of CSK for arranging the camp which resulted in them contacting the virus. Wasn't Hafeez also subjected to conflicting positive and negative viral reports before the England tour too? You absolutely cannot blame any aspect of New Zealand for the players testing positive, this country has handled the pandemic like a champ. I would call their pandemic response one of the best alongside Taiwan, South Korea and parts of Australia personally. Their testing levels are off the charts too, they aren't going to miss any random case like you've pointed out.
  • And no, not everyone can get infected. The virus isn't a magical fairy that teleports. Is it highly contagious? Yes it is approaching measles levels of spread but you still need transmission happening for the virus to take a foothold. Cut the transmission and you don't have the virus anymore. This is the secret of success for Taiwan, a country that went nearly three months without community transmission despite being practically next door to the country where the entire thing originated. The examples you've pointed out are very poor ones too. Ronaldo was infected during an international break where players intermixed. Salah got it after attending his brother's wedding in Egypt with over a thousand people in attendance. That is mind boggling and recklessness of the highest order. And finally Trump? The man whose entire regime has been anti-science, anti-mask and anti-any sort of protective measure? The same regime that called the entire thing a hoax and advised bleach and a malarial drug as a cure? There is a clear trend of people who have broken protocol/mingled with large crowds/never bothered being infected and that is how things have been mostly with the odd exception of people who have been clear collateral damage.
  • The NZ govt is absolutely within their rights to issue public ultimatums for any group of people breaching safety violations. Your assumption of them treating the 'Big 3' any different is completely wrong, their government was very stern on the UK peeps who reintroduced the virus into the island a few months ago and brought Auckland to a standstill. They have taken the virus very seriously which is the main reason why they have only 25 deaths when other countries and even islands have tons more. There are loads of Kiwis living overseas who have been unable to visit their families for holidays or even return to their country due to travel restrictions. Imagine them being refused by their own government to even return and then seeing that the very same authorities just let go of other foreign nationals who visited their country and brought the virus too. Foreigners in New Zealand also had to bide their time to return to their respective countries, a senior colleague of mine who was supposed to be working in the healthcare industry had to delay his internship by quite some significant time due to how strict the guidelines were.
  • This should just tie in with any accusations of lack of respect too. This government suspended and sacked one of their own high level healthcare official due to him breaking lockdown protocol earlier this year. You only need to look at the social media reactions of the Kiwis to understand how seriously the local population is viewing this. Most want Pakistan gone due to the inherent risk they possess with the transmission of the virus. There are locals in Christchurch who are being subjected to additional lockdown restrictions due to the arrival of this Pakistani side. How is it not disrespectful to these people who owe nothing to us subcontinental people when they are told to restrict their own freedom only for them to see that the guests have broken protocol already and are potential viral carriers? Cricket is nothing more than a professional sport for the people of NZ, it isn't life or death for them unlike us passionate folk and they will absolutely not hesitate to deport any team, there is no singling out of the Pakistani team here. I find this whole 'respect' mentality stemming from the 'respect your elders and seniors/more powerful folk' mentality from the subcontinental mind of ours nothing more than lame.
  • Jofra Archer did not receive flak for him flouting lockdown rules? Archer was subjected to heavy criticism, was dropped from the squad and even forced to train alone despite him not showing any symptoms of any sort and returning a negative test. He was even subjected to racist insults from the glorious UK media, what more criticism should he have experienced? In Archer's case, it was a rogue individual while here it is a systemic issue given that this is the second time Pakistani players have been infected. And you're contradicting yourself here by admitting that no local NZer would have been at any risk given that they did not exit the bubble which means that they did not contact the virus in the country like you've claimed earlier.
  • The players can recover but now that we have Dr. Bloomfield (sp?) confirming that the players did not follow the healthcare guidelines well, who knows how many more have been infected in the bubble? And this is without mentioning the risk of it escaping the bubble. NZ has already lost plenty of money being a tourism-dependent country this year, they aren't going to worry too much about losing revenue from a cricket tour when the risks outweigh the benefits and the locals don't really care much about the sport.
 
Unfortunately there is a lot of cheap patriotism in the subcontinent, along with a strange affinity for not following the rules. For the latter, i don’t know about other subcontinent countries, but the culture in Pakistan is just toxic. When i moved back there a couple years ago, people would make fun of me for wearing a seatbelt in a car. Seriously.
If Kohli had broken the rules, he'd have been warned too by the NZ government. That’s the definition of rule of law.
As per how they contracted the virus, i guess it was during one of the layovers in Dubai or Kuala Lumpur.
The most frustrating thing is, unlike in England, after their quarantine they would have been free to roam around with complete freedom, without a bubble.
 
LiveLoveABD said:
@AsadRM


This is what I am talking about. It is this mindset. Same thing happens in every sub continent side. Instead of accepting our mistake, we blame everyone and everything else. Lack of professionalism. I am not one of those people who think western culture is a sign of forwardness. Our culture is very beautiful and needs no change whatsoever. But this lack of professionalism, we can learn from the west.

This clown was in the running for national selector.
Click to expand...
Yeah I watched this video and I don't agree with Shoaib Akhtar, People needs to follow the rules which the country put out for the people, If Pakistani players are walking around without a mask and breaking the rules and then they should be called out for it.
Sometime being too patriotic can make you look stupid and ignorant and sadly that's what some people in India and Pakistan are like.
 
AsadRM said:
I agree with how the Pakistan team should've been more responsible in their approach, and how Akhtar is making a mockery of his nation. But a big question is how did they contract the virus? Everyone returned 2 negative tests in Lahore. Boarded an Emirates flight to Dubai and every passenger on Emirates has to have a negative COVID test to board the plane, meaning ideally they can't contract the virus on the plane. Reached Dubai and Kuala Lampur in Emirates' lounges. Then arrived in Christchurch where they were tested again and returned 6 positive tests.

Now there has to be a huge loophole in either the Emirates' setup or the Christchurch airport/ hotel. Yes, NZ hardly has any positive confirmed cases but you never know that who can have the virus, unless they are tested.

Here are some important takeaways:

Players or anyone can get COVID. Even Ronaldo, Salah, Trump etc got COVID.

Players should not have broken the SOPs and should be given a stern word or two from the PCB.

NZ govt should know better than giving out public ultimatums. This is poor. I can bet my house that had it been one of the Big3 nations, NZC, and the government would have been far secretive and respectful in their approach. There has to be a protocol of behavior to a visiting national team. Telling a former world champion side that it is a privilege to come to New Zealand and that they'd be deported doesn't sound too respectful.

PCB should have arranged for a charter flight.

Finally, what Jofra Archer did in the summer was far more dangerous yet we didn't see the same outrage. According to the Health Ministry of NZ, the Pakistan players haven't interacted with anyone outside the bubble, meaning only the players were made vulnerable, not the locals as in Archer's case.

Finally, there are 20 days to go till the series and players can easily recover in the time being.
Click to expand...

I think you are being a bit crazy. I think New Zealand would have been twice as cautious if the Indian team was coming considering the size of the country and the ultimatum would be the same. You are making this sound like a cricketing issue and it is not. This is a health issue and the subject outweighs even political issues in the world.

There is a reason why the west has such health care systems in place while we have no care in the world for people that treat or cure us. I will dare to say this- I don't think the Indian team would have been involved in this. As bad as the cricket decision management is, the Indian captain is a thorough pro and I believe his soft ultimatum to RCB actually was a very well given warning to all IPL players to respect the privilege of being able to make a livelihood and respect the health workers around the world. Making videos on planes, not wearing masks etc. Sorry, that's just garbage and it's exactly the unprofessionalism I was referring to a few days back. I am actually pleasantly surprised that the lockdown in India being so draconian was largely respected.
 
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