SA or India : The Real Challengers To Australia`s Throne.

[manee]

Dhoni is nowhere near as good as Boucher. Boucher wins that hands down. Boucher is one of the best keepers ever.

And Dhoni? Dhoni is a superb gloveman and his ability with the bat is well documented, especially since taking over as captain. However, I must note that this analysis is subjective rubbish, Harris Vs Harbhajan and Ntini Vs Zaheer are far closer than you made out and it need not be said that Test cricket is played by teams, not groups of eleven individuals. Heck, you have plain ignored Kallis' bowling, the effect of two 145kph quicks for South Africa and the fact that a player is not totally useless if he is worse than his Indian counterpart - this is why player-to-player analysis is fundamentally flawed.

 

[surendar]

And Dhoni? Dhoni is a superb gloveman

Dhoni is a superb gloveman? Are you sure? If this is what you call it as a superb then, what about keepers - Gilchrist, Boucher, Andy Flower,Healy, D.Richardson, Sangakkara called? Wonderful eh?

Dhoni is definitely better in captaincy among the Indian captains we had.. His gameplay has matured well enough. And he is playing his role nicely. But when comes to keeping, I feel Karthik keeps well better than our skipper. I am not saying Dhoni as a poor keeper.. but a 'mediocre' keeper is what I prefer than calling 'superb'.

Can Dhoni dive one handedly to his right and take flying catches like how Boucher and Gilchrist do?

Dhoni as a captain = 9/10 but as a keeper alone 5/10.

 

[manee]

Dhoni is a superb gloveman? Are you sure? If this is what you call it as a superb then, what about keepers - Gilchrist, Boucher, Andy Flower,Healy, D.Richardson, Sangakkara called? Wonderful eh?

Dhoni is definitely better in captaincy among the Indian captains we had.. His gameplay has matured well enough. And he is playing his role nicely. But when comes to keeping, I feel Karthik keeps well better than our skipper. I am not saying Dhoni as a poor keeper.. but a 'mediocre' keeper is what I prefer than calling 'superb'.

Can Dhoni dive one handedly to his right and take flying catches like how Boucher and Gilchrist do?

Dhoni as a captain = 9/10 but as a keeper alone 5/10.

I'd disagree. Just because he does not take dynamic catches, does not mean he is not extremely safe and brilliantly at adapting to different conditions.

 

[aditya123]

So much bias in this its not funny... not even worth my time reading

Can you point out the bias there ?
I have even conceded that on current form Amla is a better bet than Dravid eventhough the latter has 10,000 test runs!

aditya123 added 5 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

If you read it carefully, I never mentioned Dhoni as a better gloveman.
First read it clearly and then start the criticism.I have gone for Dhoni over Boucher in the batting analysis and all this is based on current form because otherwise I would not have gone for Amla over Dravid.

aditya123 added 1 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Quite impressive analysis Aditya,but its a little brief.
But I would say Smith is greater than Sehwag only for the fact that Sehwag isnt as consistent as Smith.But Sehwag is in good form now and can turn any match single handedly when compared with Smith.
However Smith beats him for me.
The Indian middle order and Spin department is miles ahead of SA's.
Good analysis mate.KIU.

Sehwag not very consistent ? You sure.He averages higher than Smith and has 2 triples in test cricket.Even in the Sehwag v Smith case,I said it was 50-50.

 

[surendar]

I'd disagree. Just because he does not take dynamic catches, does not mean he is not extremely safe and brilliantly at adapting to different conditions.

Only because he is not taking dynamic catches, I prefer calling him as a 'mediocre' than a 'superb' one. : Mediocre keeper will do the basics right.. and a superb keeper will do something extra than the ordinary!

@Aditya, I am not pointing out your article for Dhoni/Boucher thing. I was just referring to manee's word usage, 'superb' to Dhoni

 

[karnog]

Mediocre means ordinary at best. International keepers are not ordinary- they're above average. Dhoni's glove work to me is of standard. Mediocre is more like Akmal's glove work. But no doubt Boucher is a better glovemen but his batting isn't as good. I agree man to man doesn't work. Its a team game. One day all but Mckenzie performs but then on another all but Kallis performs. I think both teams have good team work but SA better in pace bowling but fall short in spin, India in batting and fielding goes to South Africa. So to me they're evenly matched skill wise. The key is mental strength. When under pressure can they perform? Hard to say who. SA chased down 414 against Australia in Australia and India chased down 387 against a very strong bowling attack (probably 2nd best to Saffas)

 

[Cricket_god]

Dhoni is nowhere near as good as Boucher. Boucher wins that hands down. Boucher is one of the best keepers ever.

HHHHHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

what a big joke just because bopucher has most catches does not mean
he is the best catcher.his keeping to spinners is ordinary while dhoni
keeps on turniong pitches to worldclass spinners just do not write such
rubbish about things which you lack knowledge

 

[aditya123]

And Dhoni? Dhoni is a superb gloveman and his ability with the bat is well documented, especially since taking over as captain. However, I must note that this analysis is subjective rubbish, Harris Vs Harbhajan and Ntini Vs Zaheer are far closer than you made out and it need not be said that Test cricket is played by teams, not groups of eleven individuals. Heck, you have plain ignored Kallis' bowling, the effect of two 145kph quicks for South Africa and the fact that a player is not totally useless if he is worse than his Indian counterpart - this is why player-to-player analysis is fundamentally flawed.

Just read through the post again and you`ll find that I said I could not come to a conclusion on this.There is absolutely no bias in that as I said earlier.Why otherwise do you think I went for Amla over Dravid and De Villiers over Yuvraj ? Even if you talk of it as a unit, Zaheer and Ishant are a good pair who would give Steyn and Ntini a run for their money.
Yup,I did forget Kallis`s bowling but this was`nt a planned and well thought out article that I wrote.It was just a few observations posted while I was watching the South African run chase.

We Indians have now come to understand how the `145 kph speed` reading is not the be-all and end-all of fast bowling.Bowlers could do with some reverse swing or any swing at a pace good enough to trouble the batsman as the failure of the Aussie bowling attack proves today.
The Indian pace bowlers do just that.Zaheer can push it up to the 140 kph mark and Ishant can pust it to 145kph as well.So it is not as if they cannot do it.Sharma and Zaheer on a flat deck would be more effective than Ntini because of their ability to bowl reverse swing.

 

[Cricket_god]

Dhoni is a superb gloveman? Are you sure? If this is what you call it as a superb then, what about keepers - Gilchrist, Boucher, Andy Flower,Healy, D.Richardson, Sangakkara called? Wonderful eh?

Dhoni is definitely better in captaincy among the Indian captains we had.. His gameplay has matured well enough. And he is playing his role nicely. But when comes to keeping, I feel Karthik keeps well better than our skipper. I am not saying Dhoni as a poor keeper.. but a 'mediocre' keeper is what I prefer than calling 'superb'.

Can Dhoni dive one handedly to his right and take flying catches like how Boucher and Gilchrist do?

Dhoni as a captain = 9/10 but as a keeper alone 5/10.

karthik better than dhoni are you mad?

karthik jumps when he is standing up to spinners while dhoni stays down while
standing to spinners,keeping to pacers is easy comnpared to spinners
there is no doubt that he is the 2nd best gloveman in the world after
jayawardena of srilanka

 

[aditya123]

Munaf, Sree, RP --- lethal? in getting smashed? I feel Ganguly/Tendulkar/Sehwag better than slow lifeless Munaf, aggressive for nothing, Sreesanth, Getting smashed bowler, RPSingh.

Oh well.. I am not a fan of Indian bowling attack.. SA do have a quality bowling attack which was well observed when We went to SA last time.. how our players struggled to reach even 200 in ODIs and how they(SA) got runs with ease which inturn explains our bowling attack.

You forgot Pathan? Who is another rusting bowler we have in our list. Only bowler who has impressed me is Ishant Sharma. I don't consider our Indian bowling line-up to be a dependable one even if it is a 300+ defending one.

We all know your legendary `I do not trust our bowling attack` attitude towards our bowlers.If you have seen us bowl this year,you won`t be saying that. Our `undependable` bowling attack outbowled the Australians on lifeless wickets at B`lore,Nagpur and Mohali.Even at Perth where the pitch was`nt a minefield, our bowlers outbowled the Aussie bowlers.
In Sri Lanka, our pacemen won us the test match at Galle with fine opening spells and won us the ODI series with superb bowling performances.If you cast your mind back to the CB series,again it was our bowlers who delivered regularly.

So,I don`t know where you are heading with your `Our attack is crap` attitude.

 

[surendar]

We all know your legendary `I do not trust our bowling attack` attitude towards our bowlers.If you have seen us bowl this year,you won`t be saying that.
Our `undependable` bowling attack outbowled the Australians on lifeless wickets at B`lore,Nagpur and Mohali.Even at Perth where the pitch was`nt a minefield, our bowlers outbowled the Aussie bowlers.
In Sri Lanka, our pacemen won us the test match at Galle with fine opening spells and won us the ODI series with superb bowling performances.
If you cast your mind back to the CB series,again it was our bowlers who delivered regularly.

So,I don`t know where you are heading with your `Our attack is crap` attitude.

Till now, I thought that it was Ishant who bowled those magical deliveries.. If I remember right Ponting remained as 'Bunny' for Ishant? right? Even in CB series, Praveen and Ishant is what I remember ruining the opponents. Sorry If i have a bad memory.. I never knew that RP, Munaf, Pathan, Sree should be added to our 'Dependable' bowlers list.

 

[aditya123]

Till now, I thought that it was Ishant who bowled those magical deliveries.. If I remember right Ponting remained as 'Bunny' for Ishant? right? Even in CB series, Praveen and Ishant is what I remember ruining the opponents. Sorry If i have a bad memory.. I never knew that RP, Munaf, Pathan, Sree should be added to our 'Dependable' bowlers list.

Did I ever say that ? RP,Munaf and Sreesanth have not featured in the test side regularly enough for them to be classed either as dependable or undependable.

 

[surendar]

karthik better than dhoni are you mad?

I should tell you that I am also one of the fans of Dhoni because his captaincy has impressed me. But when comes to keeping, I can't see anything other than ordinary keeping from him. But to be honest, I feel, it's enough for India considering the situation where we were in.. We needed a right mentor to lead from front, Dhoni doing it 'superb'ly. Thanks to Sachin's denial of accepting the captaincy when offered and pointing it to Dhoni.

surendar added 2 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

Did I ever say that ? RP,Munaf and Sreesanth have not featured in the test side regularly enough for them to be classed either as dependable or undependable.

I remember you saying Munaf, Sree , RP as lethal weapons though I still say, except Ishant I don't see any quality pace attack. Hopefully, Ishant is guided in right way to be a consistent match winner for our side.

 

[aditya123]

I should tell you that I am also one of the fans of Dhoni because his captaincy has impressed me. But when comes to keeping, I can't see anything other than ordinary keeping from him. But to be honest, I feel, it's enough for India considering the situation where we were in.. We needed a right mentor to lead from front, Dhoni doing it 'superb'ly. Thanks to Sachin's denial of accepting the captaincy when offered and pointing it to Dhoni.

surendar added 2 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...



I remember you saying Munaf, Sree , RP as lethal weapons though I still say, except Ishant I don't see any quality pace attack. Hopefully, Ishant is guided in right way to be a consistent match winner for our side.

Read that lethal part again.I mentioned they would be as effective as Morkel on helpful tracks.We saw examples of that in England,SA and Perth last year.

aditya123 added 1 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

I should tell you that I am also one of the fans of Dhoni because his captaincy has impressed me. But when comes to keeping, I can't see anything other than ordinary keeping from him. But to be honest, I feel, it's enough for India considering the situation where we were in.. We needed a right mentor to lead from front, Dhoni doing it 'superb'ly. Thanks to Sachin's denial of accepting the captaincy when offered and pointing it to Dhoni.

surendar added 2 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...



I remember you saying Munaf, Sree , RP as lethal weapons though I still say, except Ishant I don't see any quality pace attack. Hopefully, Ishant is guided in right way to be a consistent match winner for our side.

Zaheer Khan ???

aditya123 added 5 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

So much bias in this its not funny... not even worth my time reading

If you call a post where I called the contest between two sides very difficult to call as biased, I really do not know where the problem lies.
I`ll tell you how a biased analysis would have sounded like.It would have read something like this :
`India is light years ahead of SA.Smith is no good as a batsman. Steyn is overrated.Kallis is just a blocker`

All my comments were balanced and I tried being as neutral as possible.I don`t know what makes members here think of it as biased.

 

[Highlander999]

I am struggling to see how Laxman is better than Prince??? Prince is one of the best batsmen South Africa has. Also Boucher is a far superior gloveman to Dhoni. Boucher is up there wth Gilly for keeping. I am thinking that is why people are saying you are bias. It is pretty out of order as it is your opinion, but it doesn't help when you have people running around backing up your case with comments like,

HHHHHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

what a big joke just because bopucher has most catches does not mean
he is the best catcher.his keeping to spinners is ordinary while dhoni
keeps on turniong pitches to worldclass spinners just do not write such
rubbish about things which you lack knowledge

Also South Africa is not famous for its spin bowling, like Asian teams are. That would be why Boucher allegedly can't keep to spinners :