South Africa tour of India 2019/20

[NILAYSHAH60]

Keshav Maharaj

Don't think he is that good. He did well with the bat the last time around but against Asian sides he hasn't bowled that well.

Against India he averages 125 with the ball with just 1 wicket in 4 innings
No wickets against Pakistan although he played just 1 match
Sri Lanka is the only side against whom he got 20 wickets at an average of 26.45 and again they aren't as highly rated as a Test side

Honestly he is a defensive bowler who looks to control the flow of runs. He won't even come close to the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja once the pitch starts turning square.

Also read it clearly again I said no quality spinner to trouble India and not just quality spinner alone.

 

[Bevab]

Honestly he is a defensive bowler who looks to control the flow of runs.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

View attachment 226901

Also try to look at the economy rate. It maybe the batsman trying to go after him and getting dismissed in the process.

 

[Bevab]

Also try to look at the economy rate. It maybe the batsman trying to go after him and getting dismissed in the process.

... which would mean that he isn’t a defensive bowler like you claim. He literally has the highest strike rate on that list! Also, the only other spinners above him were Dananjaya (banned for a year now) and Kuldeep, both of whom need more games to be properly assessed.

Also, let us address his ‘poor’ record versus India. Both of his games came on some of the greenest pitches we’ve seen under Gibson’s South African tenure (which says a lot as Gibson had an absolute fetish for pace friendly pitches).

In the first game, Maharaj bowled a grand total of 10 overs out of nearly 115 overs. His pacers bowled thrice the number of overs that he did on average.

In the second game, Maharaj bowled 20 overs in the first and just 6 overs in the second innings’ respectively. Ashwin did pick five wickets in this game but he also happened to be the bowler with most overs for India by a clear distance which helped him along with his obvious skill.

Maharaj bowled a satisfactory amount of overs in only one innings out of four where he was admittedly poor, but his only wicket versus India also happened to come in this innings alone.

As for the ‘quality’ of the Sri Lankan side, I’m pretty sure Maharaj knows that they are good enough given that his team have lost four out of the last five tests played against them. Also, Maharaj has played in only one Asian country till date and happens to have a 9 wicket haul there.

In short, calling Maharaj a spinner who doesn’t have the quality to trouble India by cherrypicking stats and narratives is extremely unfair to the bloke and arrogant too when Elgar out of all people once wrecked havoc on us with the help of a friendly pitch.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

... which would mean that he isn’t a defensive bowler like you claim. He literally has the highest strike rate on that list! Also, the only other spinners above him were Dananjaya (banned for a year now) and Kuldeep, both of whom need more games to be properly assessed.

Also, let us address his ‘poor’ record versus India. Both of his games came on some of the greenest pitches we’ve seen under Gibson’s South African tenure (which says a lot as Gibson had an absolute fetish for pace friendly pitches).

In the first game, Maharaj bowled a grand total of 10 overs out of nearly 115 overs. His pacers bowled thrice the number of overs that he did on average.

In the second game, Maharaj bowled 20 overs in the first and just 6 overs in the second innings’ respectively. Ashwin did pick five wickets in this game but he also happened to be the bowler with most overs for India by a clear distance which helped him along with his obvious skill.

Maharaj bowled a satisfactory amount of overs in only one innings out of four where he was admittedly poor, but his only wicket versus India also happened to come in this innings alone.

As for the ‘quality’ of the Sri Lankan side, I’m pretty sure Maharaj knows that they are good enough given that his team have lost four out of the last five tests played against them. Also, Maharaj has played in only one Asian country till date and happens to have a 9 wicket haul there.

In short, calling Maharaj a spinner who doesn’t have the quality to trouble India by cherrypicking stats and narratives is extremely unfair to the bloke and arrogant too when Elgar out of all people once wrecked havoc on us with the help of a friendly pitch.

And just to show our pathetic team selection, our best bowler Ashwin did not get a game in West Indies.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

You can't blame the management for not playing Bhuvi in the tests right now especially when our bowling attack has been doing so well. Yes when the conditions are bowler friendly, Bhuvi can come in but the attack of Shami/Ishant/Bumrah has been brilliant for us and I don't see any reason to change it.

I guess Bhuvi is not playing here because he is pretty much a lock for T20 WC next year alongside Bumrah as our two strike bowlers. I think they are just trying out guys in reserves who have done well in IPL or in A tours and they are deservedly getting a look in. There is nothing comical about it.



I think there is straight shootout between all of them which is not a bad thing at all. I guess only one or two of them will feature in the final eleven of WC 2020 line-up. They all are very good but I am putting my money on Krunal being the one who will make it to the final 11. I am not sure about Chahal but I am certain that Kuldeep will make a comeback at some point in the T20 line-up. If he can keep up his performance, I definitely see Kuldeep being in the final 11 and playing as the frontline spinner in WC.



I agree with this. Rahul has to play because he can play the aggressor role very well and we need someone to perform that role in our top 3. Rohit isn't very good when he goes after bowling from ball 1 and he is at his best when he takes a bit of his time to settle in and then he has the ability to up his strike rate. Kohli is very similar to Rohit so we can't afford to have Dhawan doing the same thing as well. Bring Rahul in and have him go after bowlers. If they want to play Dhawan which I don't think they should but if they really want him because of the left-right combination then give him the license to go after the bowlers.



Definitely an opportunity missed.

I just found out that WI will be in India in December to play 3 ODI's and 3 T20's. That is the ideal time to test out the new players that they want to. I would say rest both Kohli and Rohit at least for T20's and allow these new guys to come in and see what they can do. WI is a very strong team in T20 and we will know exactly what these new players are capable of under pressure.

I am not one bit suggesting that Bhuvi should be in the test side. It is a matter that can be argued. He did get a pretty amazing five fer in WI last time we went there. Also, I get that there is room for just three and I would actually pick Umesh ahead of Bhuvi in tests in the sub continent and WI. I get that. Now, if he's a lock for the world t20 next year, why is he not playing? He's a lock for ODI's as well. If he's not going to play anything we will soon have a bowler who has lost his mojo. If Bhuvi has asked for rest, has that been communicated to us? Has it been communicated to him that these are try outs? If history is anything to go by, this management has communicated nothing. Bowlers need bowling fitness. Keeping Bhuvi in the shed because he's a sure shot pick is ridiculous in my opinion. We need a locked down 15-18 players who play with each other regularly!

If Jadeja needs to be trialled again after his performances in the last two years for his spot, it's an excellent message this management is sending. He must feel so secure. But hey, he's not Virat Kohli who bats at the same number every game and plays all dead rubbers. It is inevitable Jadeja will fail some time soon because he has been performing relentlessly in whatever opportunities he has got in the past two years.

 

[Velocity]

Don't think he is that good. He did well with the bat the last time around but against Asian sides he hasn't bowled that well.

Against India he averages 125 with the ball with just 1 wicket in 4 innings
No wickets against Pakistan although he played just 1 match
Sri Lanka is the only side against whom he got 20 wickets at an average of 26.45 and again they aren't as highly rated as a Test side

Honestly he is a defensive bowler who looks to control the flow of runs. He won't even come close to the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja once the pitch starts turning square.

Also read it clearly again I said no quality spinner to trouble India and not just quality spinner alone.

He is actually a quality spinner. I don't understand on what basis you choose to make random baseless claims in your posts, but he has proven to be a competent spinner where he should thrive, which is in Asia. If I remember correctly, he took a 9-fer in an innings against SL and the numbers you posted above against SL are quite good considering Sri Lankans are very good players of spin. And regarding those other statistics, you have to remember that he was barely required on pitches providing movement and true bounce for fast bowlers. South Africa is not a place where spinners are effective, and he's still proven to be quite successful in the domestic scene and abroad. he's a very good bowler and he will do well on these spinning tracks, he just needs someone to support him for SA to play well in India. I think it's rather outlandish to say that he's not a quality spinner.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

In short, calling Maharaj a spinner who doesn’t have the quality to trouble India by cherrypicking stats and narratives is extremely unfair to the bloke and arrogant too when Elgar out of all people once wrecked havoc on us with the help of a friendly pitch.

With all due respect to your opinion I don't feel convinced regarding it. Let us wait and see what he could do. I'll be hoping to see him in action and would hope for him that if he is good he does get success in the Test series.

 

[Bevab]

Yes, that too against a side that was no.7 in Test rankings and hadn't beaten the South African team since 2006 and had won 1 out of 27 Tests in Overseas, also it was highly inexperienced and low on confidence. Sure he did well. I think Maharaj is somone who is better than Imran Tahir right ? My answer is definitely no ! He might be a decent bowler but when bowlers like Lyon, Herath and Moeen Ali have struggled you can't be expecting him to do well. Even bowlers like Muralitharan and Shane Warne have struggled in India.



It was South Africa's batting that cost them those matches. Okay so let us call Sri Lankan team at par with the Indian team.



Ok so bowling half trackers is aggressive bowling ? Yes yes I agree to it. TBH strike rate makes the least importance in the Test format because you can go for even 120 runs and claim just 3 wickets bowling 35 overs and collectively concede 400 runs which doesn't favour you as a side with average to decent batting line-up. And if you go on to bowl 50 overs conceding just 120 runs and claim 5 wickets can certainly help a team better. I feel like there would be flat wickets for the Test series with India scoring past 500 and winning the match by more than 100 runs or an innings so with the surface deteriorating by the time the Proteas get to bat. And on such surfaces Maharaj won't be as effective. He doesn't have genuine quality like that of Panesar and Swann.

I take guarantee of India winning the series 2-1 or 3-0 atleast if the South African batting doesn't do well and India doing better with the bat.

Can you guarantee Maharaj's performance ? If he is that good than for sure you would.[DOUBLEPOST=1568964773][/DOUBLEPOST]

Is he a genuine quality spinner ?

I give up.

There is no point in continuing a discussion when you're clearly attracted to taking up the position of devil's advocate on nearly every issue on this forum, alongside taking up said position and then doing everything possible to maintain it even if it means making ludicrous statements like the ones bolded here.

Have a good day mate. [DOUBLEPOST=1568979331][/DOUBLEPOST]

And just to show our pathetic team selection, our best bowler Ashwin did not get a game in West Indies.

In hindsight, I was probably too rash to suggest that it was fair for Jadeja to be the first choice spinner in West Indies. Ashwin certainly deserved to play a game at least.

 

[Velocity]

Yes, that too against a side that was no.7 in Test rankings and hadn't beaten the South African team since 2006 and had won 1 out of 27 Tests in Overseas, also it was highly inexperienced and low on confidence. Sure he did well. I think Maharaj is somone who is better than Imran Tahir right ? My answer is definitely no ! He might be a decent bowler but when bowlers like Lyon, Herath and Moeen Ali have struggled you can't be expecting him to do well. Even bowlers like Muralitharan and Shane Warne have struggled in India.



It was South Africa's batting that cost them those matches. Okay so let us call Sri Lankan team at par with the Indian team.



Ok so bowling half trackers is aggressive bowling ? Yes yes I agree to it. TBH strike rate makes the least importance in the Test format because you can go for even 120 runs and claim just 3 wickets bowling 35 overs and collectively concede 400 runs which doesn't favour you as a side with average to decent batting line-up. And if you go on to bowl 50 overs conceding just 120 runs and claim 5 wickets can certainly help a team better. I feel like there would be flat wickets for the Test series with India scoring past 500 and winning the match by more than 100 runs or an innings so with the surface deteriorating by the time the Proteas get to bat. And on such surfaces Maharaj won't be as effective. He doesn't have genuine quality like that of Panesar and Swann.

I take guarantee of India winning the series 2-1 or 3-0 atleast if the South African batting doesn't do well and India doing better with the bat.

Can you guarantee Maharaj's performance ? If he is that good than for sure you would.[DOUBLEPOST=1568964773][/DOUBLEPOST]

Is he a genuine quality spinner ?

What was already an unfair assessment of Maharaj of the basis of whatever bs you're spewing now seems pointless to debate about. Imran Tahir himself has nothing to do with Maharaj considering he's out of the Test scene with SA, and Swann and Panesar were never really 'quality' in terms of the way you are describing it. You can never underestimate your opponent even if you're playing in your own backyard and starting off with the high ground.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Somehow India have started playing the T20 way today. Dhawan looks in great form all of a sudden. I should somewhere feel for Fortuin here. He has been smashed all the way by Dhawan right from the time he has come to this Country. First in Thiruvananthapuram, then in Mohali and now today at Bengaluru which is a graveyard for the bowlers.

Btw I think it isn't the good call to bat first. Does Kohli want to try something different here ?

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

How many times India will commit the mistake of sending Pant ahead of someone like Shreyas Iyer? They should've done this with Dhoni when he was there in the team, I mean batting him at 4 and let him play more freely.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Kohli !!!!!!!!

What kind of shot was that ? That too against a bowler like Rabada. The advantage now is that inexperienced Indian middle order get a chance to test itself.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

That poor middle order once again!!!

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

And this suggests how poor as a batting unit we have been in the T20 format. As I am saying this Jadeja thwarts a hit down the ground for a six.