Sri Lanka in England/Netherlands

[James219]

Not exactly sure of this but I think Giles is the 2nd leading wicket taker of english spinners with 140. Don't moan at me if this isn't right, cricinfo won't work!

Err, no....
Anyway, Giles may not be the most effective or talented finger spinner, but he has learnt to contain and take wickets at vital stages for his country and has really developed, considering what he was. There are a few ahead of him, but I suppose they like to keep the team fairly constant- a mentality open for discussion...-and, as someone mentioned earlier, your quality as a bowler is quite often ignored if you have decent worth with the bat.

 

[hondeyho]

Not exactly sure of this but I think Giles is the 2nd leading wicket taker of english spinners with 140. Don't moan at me if this isn't right, cricinfo won't work!

I won't moan but those statistics aren't that reliable, Giles is way down the list.

1. Derek Underwood - 297
2. Jim Laker - 193
3. Tony Lock - 174
4. Maurice Tate - 155
5. Fred Titmus - 153
6. John Embury - 147
7. Hedley Verity - 144
8. Ashley Giles - 140

Yes he's close to some of the others, but he's definetly not one of the best spinners to play for England.

 

[James219]

And you have to keep in mind the amount of cricket played today as opposed to past eras. Laker played less than 50 tests and took 193 wickets with an unbelievable average, which is the best statistical indication. Still, Giles has been compared plenty of times- these guys are greats of the game- and despite his critics, has still taken over 100 test wickets with more than 50 test caps to his name...

 

[Sureshot]

English players who are better spin bowlers than Ashley Giles:

Robert Croft
Gary Keedy
Gareth Batty
Jason Brown
Monty Panesar
Shaun Udal

and more. When Vaughan can be bothered to bowl, he's a better spinner than Giles too.

Nayan Doshi is English too isn't he?

 

[andrew_nixon]

Nayan Doshi is English too isn't he?

That's another then.

 

[James219]

What's Loudon like solely as a spinner? I know he's potent with the bat, and I've just assumed that his bowling was mediocre- although haven't really heard much about him...

 

[Sureshot]

He's taken a 5 for this season.

When he tends to get it really right he'll get 4 or 5 wickets,He's improved tremendously since his early Kent days.

Expect to see him an England shirt sooner rather than later, could be a genuine English spinning all rounder.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/16388.html

5 - 5 fors, and 2 centuries with 14 50s.

Expect a rain delay at Hove soon for Sri Lanka vs Sussex.

It's been raining here for about 20 minutes.
Fairly windy too, and as the wind is blowing (like always here) West to East, it should reach Hove by Half four.

Complete cloud cover now.

 

[Sureshot]

That's another then.

Graeme Swann?

Min Patel?

Martyn Ball?

Oh and I was spot on about the weather.

 

[cricket doctor]

Graeme Swann?

Min Patel?

Martyn Ball?

So, 3 more then.

 

[BigCrickNan]

Graeme Swann?

Min Patel?

Martyn Ball?

Oh and I was spot on about the weather.

Drew Davie? I can spin it further then Giles, if that's what Nixon is tlaking about.

 

[cricket doctor]

Drew Davie? I can spin it further then Giles.

Ability to turn the ball is not the only criteria to classify yourself as a decent spinners.

 

[andrew_nixon]

Ability to turn the ball is not the only criteria to classify yourself as a decent spinners.

Exactly. I've seen Darren Gough bowl off-spin, and turn the ball more than Giles too. But I wouldn't call him a decent spinner.

 

[puddleduck]

All these people may turn it more than Gilo, but not one of them will get as much bounce and variation in bounce as Giles does. Kumble has over 500 wickets through variation in bounce, just because Giles doesn't necessarily turn the ball off the pitch as much as other spin bowlers, doesn't make him a worse bowler.

As I said if Giles is worse than all these people you keep mentioning, then why was he the leading wicket taker in the whole of England in the brief county spell he was able to play in at the start of last season, on early England wickets that don't often favour spinners.

 

[kodos]

All these people may turn it more than Gilo, but not one of them will get as much bounce and variation in bounce as Giles does. Kumble has over 500 wickets through variation in bounce, just because Giles doesn't necessarily turn the ball off the pitch as much as other spin bowlers, doesn't make him a worse bowler.

As I said if Giles is worse than all these people you keep mentioning, then why was he the leading wicket taker in the whole of England in the brief county spell he was able to play in at the start of last season, on early England wickets that don't often favour spinners.

I agree, turning the ball does not guarantee you to be the best spinner or the no.1 choice in the team. Kumble has been extremely successful with his quickish skiddy leg breaks which don't turn a massive amount like a MacGill or Murali. Even Warne doesn't spin a massive amount at times yet he is the leading wicket taker. Another example is Afridi who is pretty successful with the ball. It's all about variation and Giles does vary his deliveries pretty well.

 

[irottev]

Vettori is the third best spinner in the world and hardly spins the ball unless the pitch really assists it.