West Indies in England 2009

[Howsie]

Jimmy Anderson was a raw talent though, not an experienced bowler like Sidebottom. Anderson also offered more than swing and swing alone. He's got good pace, and is a handy back of a length bowler. Anderson of 3-4 years ago was still better than Sidebottom of the last 6 months for mine. I don't agree that left handedness is a massive asset when it's not swinging. I think the key to being effective as a left-armer is swing, and when it's not swinging there's no massive benefit to bowling left arm. I'd much rather have someone like Onions, Flintoff, Bresnan and even Harmison ahead of Sidey tbh.

You must really love Anderson, or really despise Sidebottom but there is no waaaaayyy Anderson 3-4 years ago was better then Sidebottom 6-12 months ago. I'm really hoping Sidebottom plays in the Ashes, he would be a real handful for them unlike Broad and Onions.

 

[King Pietersen]

Sidebottom 12 months ago was very good, in the last 6 months though he's been rubbish. Mainly due to injuries, but I've just not been anywhere near as impressed with him as I was early in his England career. If he gets back to 100% fitness he'll be a handful, but I don't think he will tbh. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong!

Also, Onions just took a 5 wicket haul at Lords, not sure how you can justify saying that he'll not be a handful for Australia.

 

[jordox]

Also, Onions just took a 5 wicket haul at Lords, not sure how you can justify saying that he'll not be a handful for Australia.

Well, two of the wickets I saw of it where nearly solely down to batsman error (The bowled, and the flick to backward square).

He's brilliant though. I'm not slagging him off, I'm just showing the other side of it.

 

[Ari]

Also, Onions just took a 5 wicket haul at Lords, not sure how you can justify saying that he'll not be a handful for Australia.

Southee got a 5 wicket haul aganist England on debut at Napier which is flatter than lords if you can believe it, he now averages 47 in test cricket. It is way to hard to judge someone after just one game. If Sidebottom is fully fit I would be very tempted to go with him hes proven what he can do.

 

[Howsie]

Sidebottom 12 months ago was very good, in the last 6 months though he's been rubbish. Mainly due to injuries, but I've just not been anywhere near as impressed with him as I was early in his England career. If he gets back to 100% fitness he'll be a handful, but I don't think he will tbh. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong!

Also, Onions just took a 5 wicket haul at Lords, not sure how you can justify saying that he'll not be a handful for Australia.

Ponting doesn't seem to think so.

http://content.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/story/404191.html

As for Onions, who took 5 for 38 at Lord's, Ponting remained to be convinced of his long-term role. "He's a lively bowler, and he did well in that game but I'm not sure when they get the Sidebottoms and all those guys back if he'll still be in their side, but we'll wait and see."

 

[King Pietersen]

Ponting thinks that Vaughan and Harmison are still 2 of England's best players, and we're just waiting to slot them back in come the Ashes, which just frankly isn't true. It seems that Flower wants the guys that are performing currently in his side, not guys that have done it 4 years in the past. Neither have performed at FC level this season, and shouldn't be in contention for a place.

Graeme Onions bowled with good pace, got abit of movement in the air and off the wicket and he seems passionate about playing for England, certainly more than Harmison offers. Onions has been in excellent form this season and every time I've seen him he's looked a class act. If Harmison plays ahead of him I'll be incredibly disappointed.

 

[Simbazz]

Onion's probably wont be involved in the Ashes, it'd be a bit like Bell in 2005, a bit overwhelming.

I think, in all fairness Dan, that you do probably think too much of Jimmy Anderson. Yes he's got some considerable talent, when he's on form, but when he isn't, its absolutely horrible to watch. Again, I do believe Anderson IS better than Sidebottom, but they're different bowlers, different reasons for being in a team.

Sidebottom has the ability to keep it tight, to give Anderson and probably Flintoff the ability to attack, which is what we need come the Ashes. I think Sidebottom, if fit, has a major role to play in the Ashes, and hopefully beyond. If somehow we manage to regain the little urn, then we need the team not to crumble like after '05.

 

[Themer]

In my opinion Sidebottom has done decently so far in FC matches and would appear to be fit and on the back of his previous achievements deserves to be in the squad and for should be ahead of Bresnan, no offense to him but he just isn't test quality he can bat a bit yes he can bowl a bit yes but neither are up to test standard quality so I'd Sidey in above him. Some people are overly negative over Sidebottom for me he bowled when he was injured not to his best and has been lambasted for that.

 

[King Pietersen]

Overwhelming? You're talking like he's barely played any cricket. He's played 58 FC games and taken 176 wickets, it's not like he's majorly inexperienced. Picking a bowler whos unarguably in worse form than Onions would be setting yourself up for failure. Screw international experience, if a bowlers not doing the business in the County Game, then he shouldn't get in the team ahead of someone that's actually performed. Onions has played 20 or so more FC games than Bell had by the time he made his Test debut. He's 26 years old, I'm sure he can handle the pressure.

As for the Anderson issue. I've barely mentioned Jimmy. I do rate him highly, but with good reason. He's been excellent in the last 12 months or so. Bowls at a good pace, swings it both ways with no change in action and he's also capable of being dangerous when the balls not swinging. Maybe I was wrong about the Jimmy of 3/4 years ago being better than Sidey in the last 6 months, but the Jimmy Anderson of the last 12 months has been better than Sidebottom at his best I think. Sidebottom could be a handy member of the bowling attack, but I don't think he should get in the team ahead of someone that's performing very well on the County Circuit and has performed in the Test arena. Why drop someone that's performed excellently?

 

[Howsie]

Overwhelming? You're talking like he's barely played any cricket. He's played 58 FC games and taken 176 wickets, it's not like he's majorly inexperienced. Picking a bowler whos unarguably in worse form than Onions would be setting yourself up for failure. Screw international experience, if a bowlers not doing the business in the County Game, then he shouldn't get in the team ahead of someone that's actually performed. Onions has played 20 or so more FC games than Bell had by the time he made his Test debut. He's 26 years old, I'm sure he can handle the pressure.

As for the Anderson issue. I've barely mentioned Jimmy. I do rate him highly, but with good reason. He's been excellent in the last 12 months or so. Bowls at a good pace, swings it both ways with no change in action and he's also capable of being dangerous when the balls not swinging. Maybe I was wrong about the Jimmy of 3/4 years ago being better than Sidey in the last 6 months, but the Jimmy Anderson of the last 12 months has been better than Sidebottom at his best I think. Sidebottom could be a handy member of the bowling attack, but I don't think he should get in the team ahead of someone that's performing very well on the County Circuit and has performed in the Test arena. Why drop someone that's performed excellently?

I'm just doing abit of nitpicking here but hasn't Anderson played the same teams as Sidebottom. You said that a lot of Sidebottoms wickets came against a week New Zealand team, and yet I remember Anderson picking up his best ever figuers against that same week New Zealand team. For me Anderson is alright, but still at this moment nothing special.

 

[Simbazz]

In my opinion Sidebottom has done decently so far in FC matches and would appear to be fit and on the back of his previous achievements deserves to be in the squad and for should be ahead of Bresnan, no offense to him but he just isn't test quality he can bat a bit yes he can bowl a bit yes but neither are up to test standard quality so I'd Sidey in above him. Some people are overly negative over Sidebottom for me he bowled when he was injured not to his best and has been lambasted for that.

If I wanted to sound insane, i'd say get Hoggard back.

Its generally similar to the way Sidebottom is starting to be talked out of his international game. Hoggy did nothing wrong in my book, just unfortunate.

 

[King Pietersen]

I'm just doing abit of nitpicking here but hasn't Anderson played the same teams as Sidebottom. You said that a lot of Sidebottoms wickets came against a week New Zealand team, and yet I remember Anderson picking up his best ever figuers against that same week New Zealand team. For me Anderson is alright, but still at this moment nothing special.

If it was figures and figures alone we were basing it on, then Sidebottom's better. But Anderson has comprehensively outbowled any of Englands bowlers in the last 12 months. Fred's been good when he's been there, but Jimmy's been an almost permanent fixture in the side and has finally found his consistency. He was excellent in the West Indies but due to the dreadfully flat decks he failed to pick up the wickets he deserved, and acted as the foil to Stuart Broad who did the damage from the other end. The same happened at Lords, he was very good once more, and deserved a couple more wickets. He's well and truely turned a corner.

On a brighter note. Cook is looking in good form here. Has struggled with his technique early on, but is slowly starting to look like the Cook we saw when he first came into International cricket. He's timing his foot movements better and is getting forward to the quicks. Good signs.

 

[Simbazz]

If it was figures and figures alone we were basing it on, then Sidebottom's better. But Anderson has comprehensively outbowled any of Englands bowlers in the last 12 months. Fred's been good when he's been there, but Jimmy's been an almost permanent fixture in the side and has finally found his consistency. He was excellent in the West Indies but due to the dreadfully flat decks he failed to pick up the wickets he deserved, and acted as the foil to Stuart Broad who did the damage from the other end. The same happened at Lords, he was very good once more, and deserved a couple more wickets. He's well and truely turned a corner.

I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

All i'm saying is that your being unfairly harsh on Sidebottom, when in all fairness, he could outclass Anderson, maybe not wickets wise, but definately at keeping the RR down.

Strauss gone, I was about to say, the only way the WI are going to take wicket is from batsman error. Time for Ravi!

 

[King Pietersen]

Strauss gone. Disappointing to get out to Gayle, at least we'll get to see Ravi now Hopefully he'll be able to cash in on what looks a flatish deck.

Meh, maybe I am being a little harsh on Sidey. It's abit harsh to judge a guy based on performances when injured. I just don't particularly want to see him replace Onions, who has performed excellently. He won't replace Bresnan either, as it'll be Flintoff who comes in for him when fit. I can't really see a way back in, as with team balance as it is, we need Broad, so with Sidey offering very little with the bat and in the field I can't really see him coming back in, unless there's an injury.

 

[Simbazz]

On a brighter note. Cook is looking in good form here. Has struggled with his technique early on, but is slowly starting to look like the Cook we saw when he first came into International cricket. He's timing his foot movements better and is getting forward to the quicks.

Those two drive for four really where something to watch, Trescothick reminiscent.

Thats what we need, two openers who can hit the boundaries. Worked for Australia for years with Langer and Hayden.