Group C - Canada, England, Kenya, New Zealand

[irottev]

This was a dire performance today,we should have won this,we have the better team but New Zealand just perform better and have a much more balanced side.

No way. Sorry but you don't.

I rekon we coulda scored almost 300. We had 9 overs left and 6 wickets with Oram and Styris fully in! Great innings from those two batsmen. Did exactly what they should have done, played without risk. Great recovery. Great job boys! The pitch takes no blame, England just collapsed and were at least 50 runs short. They scored too slowly at the start and middle stages against Vettori.

130 something partnership, that's a great effort. Even with the chance to Pietersen I rekon with our batting to come we had done enough to win it. I mean the run rate was always under 3.5. I think a more crucial moment was when Anderson got edged through where 1st slip would have been much earlier. That may have caused us a little more trouble.

 

[Leicester Fox]

No way. Sorry but you don't.

we have better players than new zealand as individuals, admittedly there not any good in ODI's but as individuals they're more talented

 

[sohum]

I agree with irottev. I don't think England have a better team than New Zealand. I don't think they're close to it, either. New Zealand have the better captain (Stephen Fleming), the better fast bowler (Shane Bond), the better spinner (Daniel Vettori) and the better wicketkeeper (Brendan McCullum).

Flintoff and Pietersen are really England's only hope for doing well in the World Cup, along with Paul Collingwood who always seems to go without praise. If these guys don't perform, I think the rest of their team will collapse in a heap.

 

[aussie1st]

we have better players than new zealand as individuals, admittedly there not any good in ODI's but as individuals they're more talented

This is the ODI arena though.
Neutral view on a comparison on performance in the ODI arena.

Joyce vs Vincent - Vincent
Vaughan v Fleming - Fleming
Taylor v Bell - Even
KP v Styris - KP
McMillan v Collingwood - Even
Flintoff v Oram - Even
Nixon v McCullum - McCullum
Monty v Vettori - Vettori
Patel v Dalrymple - Patel
Bond v Plunkett - Bond
Anderson v Franklin - Even

 

[Leicester Fox]

Vaughan has the talent with the bat all he needs to do is just click in ODI's.KP and Collingwod are both top class batsmen,Bell needs to learn how to make 100's and he will be one of the worlds best batsmen,Flintoff is a goon with the bat atm but when he hits form he's one of the most detsructive players in the world. Jimmy and Plunkett are capable of destroying any side when they fire as shown in the CBS and Monty is class too,Fred is one of the worlds best bowlers. Nixon shown why he should have been selected too today and the only player who should remain a selection doubt is Joyce but the only player I'd swap him for isn't in the squad. The team has the talent to win the world cup but it seems to be completely inept at ODI's at times and then at other times it's unbeatable

 

[nightprowler10]

This is the ODI arena though.
Neutral view on a comparison on performance in the ODI arena.

Joyce vs Vincent - Vincent
Vaughan v Fleming - Fleming
Taylor v Bell - Even
KP v Styris - KP
McMillan v Collingwood - Even
Flintoff v Oram - Even
Nixon v McCullum - McCullum
Monty v Vettori - Vettori
Patel v Dalrymple - Patel
Bond v Plunkett - Bond
Anderson v Franklin - Even

Good comparison, but I'd take Colly over McMillan and Anderson over Franklin, to be honest. The rest I agree.

 

[Leicester Fox]

This is the ODI arena though.
Neutral view on a comparison on performance in the ODI arena.

Joyce vs Vincent - Vincent
Vaughan v Fleming - Fleming
Taylor v Bell - Even
KP v Styris - KP
McMillan v Collingwood - Even
Flintoff v Oram - Even
Nixon v McCullum - McCullum
Monty v Vettori - Vettori
Patel v Dalrymple - Patel
Bond v Plunkett - Bond
Anderson v Franklin - Even

Anderson is a better bowler than Franklin,Freddie is miles better than Oram! Admittedly he's out of form but to say Orams even with him is just wrong,Collingwood is also better than McMillan,JD can bat and bowl so it's hard to compare him to Patel too. The rest i would agree with though

 

[aussie1st]

Yea fair enough Anderson over Franklin and Collingwood over Macca.
Going into this game I would have taken Oram over Flintoff so even is fair enough.

 

[Sureshot]

we have better players than new zealand as individuals, admittedly there not any good in ODI's but as individuals they're more talented

Nope. Our players are talented but fluff it up on all too many occasions. New Zealand have a very strong team and are candidates for WC glory, we aren't.

Poor performance today, would've faired better had we won the toss but we were outplayed today by a very good side.

 

[Leicester Fox]

What would people have said in '05 ifwe told them most people would think Oram was equally as good as him! If Fred doesn't improve you'd have to say that he only had 1 series where he was truly great though

Why does everyone think that we have no chance of winning too? They thought that in the CBS too, but look what happened,i've siad it before,it's how you finish not how you start,someone out of Australia and South africa will lose but people won't think they are out of the the WC. I'm over this loss now, i still believe

 

[aussie1st]

Some players take longer to click, Oram is on that boat his batting average should be at least double what it is now and his bowling is a handful. Just have to look how long it took Symonds to click.

 

[aussie_ben91]

This is the ODI arena though.
Neutral view on a comparison on performance in the ODI arena.

Joyce vs Vincent - Vincent
Vaughan v Fleming - Fleming
Taylor v Bell - Even
KP v Styris - KP
McMillan v Collingwood - Even
Flintoff v Oram - Even
Nixon v McCullum - McCullum
Monty v Vettori - Vettori
Patel v Dalrymple - Patel
Bond v Plunkett - Bond
Anderson v Franklin - Even

More like...

Joyce vs Vincent - Vincent
Vaughan v Fleming - Even, Flemming's captaincy may be better but their batting is even. Vaughan though is way better when his at his best.
Taylor v Bell - Even
KP v Styris - KP
McMillan v Collingwood - Collingwood, how can you possibly compare?
Flintoff v Oram - Flintoff, how can you possibly compare again? Oram was nothing but a OD bowler until January.
Nixon v McCullum - McCullum
Monty v Vettori - Vettori, it'll be even sooner rather then later.
Patel v Dalrymple - Even, decent bowler who was a pretty successful batsman in the last English summer.
Bond v Plunkett - Bond
Anderson v Franklin - Anderson

 

[aussie1st]

Fleming has the results in the ODI arena, Vaughan doesn't. It's nothing to do with "when he's at his best" it's to do with "what he has done in the ODI arena".

And going by your list NZ win 4-3, weren't you the one saying England were miles better? Well they just lost to NZ in the WC, and your list of player v player shows an NZ win.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Well they are better. They have a way superior batting lineup to NZ & in a way I think England's bowling lineup are reasonably stronger then NZ's batting.

 

[aussie1st]

The same superior batting lineup that made 210 while the Kiwis got it in 40 overs?