jkartik
Chairman of Selectors
hmmm..you might wanna look at the australian side of WC2007....and re-consider your statement
India in England/Ireland/Scotland
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hmmm..you might wanna look at the australian side of WC2007....and re-consider your statement
harishankar
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Australia is not India.
siddharth2002
National Board President<br /><a href="showthread.
Have to agree with that, nothing much has changed since WC 07. I, for disagree and will always disagree with Ganguly's place in Indian side, tests and ODI's included. A bit late to say it but Yuvraj should have been picked ahead of Ganguly in recent test matches. And whatever happened to Robin Uthappa opening the innings in ODIs?????Good thing I didn't sit up to watch the Indian Innings. From the descriptions here, seems India muffed up big time.
I keep saying the same thing over and over again: the golden oldies of Indian cricket (Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar) need to retire from ODI cricket. The modern game is just not suited for a team so immobile on the field and a captain who is so negative that he thinks he can draw a ODI match.
We need dynamic youth like in the 2002-2003 days. We've gone backwards by holding on to the same set of losers who played the World Cup 2007... the whole saga was a joke in my opinion. What ever happened to the era of "youth" policy? We now have old-age pensioners in the side who are hanging on for their records and it's getting almost pathetic...
As for Ajit Agarkar, god knows how long he'll continue gracing the team with his sublime presence because I think he's set the record for being the underperformer of the century in Indian cricket who's had such a long run in ODI cricket.
England played it just right and all congratulations to them. They look set to win this series with their strong bowling attack and the all-rounders who add so much balance to the side. Now they look like a modern side.
jkartik
Chairman of Selectors
well..if the BIG GUNS cant fire...how do you expect the youngsters to do better than them ??
a very good e.g would be piyush chawla....
sohum
Executive member
I'm not sure how is Chawla a good example? I hope this isn't a diss at him because it is hard to take a dig at him since he failed to get anything out of a pitch that wouldn't turn a centimeter in the first half of the game. And one does expect the youngsters to fire because they are new to the game, they bring in more energy and they are better overall players for the shorter version of the game. For example, they know how to field and to dive.
Ah well. I'm just going to hope the second match--and the last match I will be watching of this series since I'm heading back to the States--is better from India's pov.
Ah well. I'm just going to hope the second match--and the last match I will be watching of this series since I'm heading back to the States--is better from India's pov.
Wow what a performance from England. Incredible. India were terrible, a sad day for indian cricket. If england had been aggressive in the early overs, then passing 300 would have been easy. Impressed with cook, and especially bell, id still liked to have seen freddie open the batting though.
Well done england for making me eat my words early on.
Well done england for making me eat my words early on.
Yes, England were fantastic.
India,I'd say got carried away by their test series victory.
It also shows the effort that we put in,even after we were thrashed around by the England Lions.
Bowling needs to improve,so does the batting.
I believ Dravid rightly said - We wee out-batted,out-bowled and out-fielded.
They continue like this and I'd say the ICL should put forth its own Team India.
I keep saying the same thing over and over again: the golden oldies of Indian cricket (Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar) need to retire from ODI cricket. The modern game is just not suited for a team so immobile on the field and a captain who is so negative that he thinks he can draw a ODI match.
We need dynamic youth like in the 2002-2003 days. We've gone backwards by holding on to the same set of losers who played the World Cup 2007... the whole saga was a joke in my opinion. What ever happened to the era of "youth" policy? We now have old-age pensioners in the side who are hanging on for their records and it's getting almost pathetic...
I agree India need a more "dynamic team" but they need players who are a good mix of age. I'd prefer Dravid and Ganguly any day over Munaf Patel. Personally i think Kaif needs to return and Yuvraf rise to 4. Kartik takes opening with Gahmbir/Uthappa... my opinion on who should bat changes every day. As for bowling, it can improve to great heights if the fielding is greatly improved. Reducing those 3s and 2s to 2s and 1s respectively plus saving fours would help India's bowling tremendously. Australia's bowling attack (barring the old Mcgrath) do not consist of the top 5 bowlers in the world. The likes of Ponting, Symonds, Hayden, Clarke and Hussey lurking in the field gives Australia the extra wickets that wouldn't otherwise be possible.
harishankar
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Munaf is an old grizzly war veteran who needs to move with his walking stick... always gave the impression even while running up to bowl...
Perhaps instead of saying "youth" policy I should have said "energy" policy.
Remember Robin Singh's age when he played for India? Well, he wasn't the youngest, but he was perhaps the most energetic at that time.
Yes, so I can accept that youth can be lazy and senior players can be energetic. It's just that Dravid and Ganguly aren't exactly Robin Singh or Mohd. Azharuddin on the field. And being the senior players in the side, the vibes aren't exactly positive on the field. Even Yuvi seems a touch slower these days -- might be he's still worried about his injury.
Perhaps instead of saying "youth" policy I should have said "energy" policy.
Remember Robin Singh's age when he played for India? Well, he wasn't the youngest, but he was perhaps the most energetic at that time.
Yes, so I can accept that youth can be lazy and senior players can be energetic. It's just that Dravid and Ganguly aren't exactly Robin Singh or Mohd. Azharuddin on the field. And being the senior players in the side, the vibes aren't exactly positive on the field. Even Yuvi seems a touch slower these days -- might be he's still worried about his injury.
Here is my slightly peeved point of view.
Dravid won the toss and chose to bowl first. It was the wrong choice, but a captain is entitled to a wrong choice. It was overcast and he had every reason to think it would swing and he also had every point of view that the top order would do their job for the likes of Yuvraj, Dhoni and Karthik to play the finishing roles which they do so well.
England batted very well. Their tactic of building a base and working off it worked (for once) with Bell in particular playing a spectacular innings. Cook played a good supporting role too and was well deserving of his maiden ODI hundred. Kevin Pietersen's late over hitting was ideal considering the situation, he was not stupid or reckless but England still managed 73 in the final ten overs.
India on the other hand bowled poorly. There was a feeling of complacency in the Indian bowling and fielding. The bowlers (especially Agarkar) were not running in and bowling fast and so England could adjust to any movement (of which there was minimal) off the pitch. England had some luck in that they would bat defensively, and then each attacking shot would beat the infield and go for four. Whether this was luck or skill will not be known but it was crucial in the course of the match. With the boundary count increasing, Dravid spread the field out. I feel this was a poor move considering he should have continued to strangle England for runs instead of letting them accumilate six an over. None of the bowlers did well, they all concentrated on accuracy and even that they did not do well. One dimentional bowlers do not work in ODIs and India should take that lesson.
India's innings started horribly. Tendulkar played half a dozen (if not more) boundary shots, all of which went straight to the fielders. This helped England build pressure and eventually the run out followed. Tendulkar hit yet more shots to the fielders and in taking the arial route was caught by Bopara. From there, India never got started and the asking rate got too much. England did bowl well though. The pace bowlers bowled extremely fast and showed that 'pace does matter'. Flintoff in particular was fast, hitting 90mph more times than not. The latter run outs were largely due to depression (for lack of a better word) in getting trounced by England and should not be an issue for the future.
Looking toward the future ODIs. Agarkar must go for Munaf Patel. Agarkar was severly uninspiring with his pace and he was expensive. A wicket taking bowler like Agarkar, bowling slow and not moving the ball is pretty useless while Munaf Patel seems to either contain or take plenty of wickets in ODIs. Zaheer and RP Singh should stay in the team but both should look to vary it up - Zaheer with the yorker and RP Singh with his deceptive bouncer. Chawla bowled OK and his batting may provide depth to the team but fields must be set well to him so that England cannot manipulate him for singles.
India's batting order did not work properly at all. Gambhir at three was a spare wheel (or third opener) and did not work well at all. Number three should be your best player and that is why I think Dravid should go there. I think the way to attack England when they are bowling is to go for it in the powerplays leaving no good time to bring on Monty or the medium pacers so I feel Uthappa should open with Tendulkar. Karthik at seven was also a spare wheel, he should go above Dhoni so he is not wasted and Dhoni can shepherd the end of the innings like he does so well.
1) Tendulkar
2) Uthappa
3) Dravid
4) Ganguly
5) Yuvraj
6) Karthik
7) Dhoni
8) Chawla
9) Zaheer Khan
10) RP Singh
11) Munaf Patel
Dravid won the toss and chose to bowl first. It was the wrong choice, but a captain is entitled to a wrong choice. It was overcast and he had every reason to think it would swing and he also had every point of view that the top order would do their job for the likes of Yuvraj, Dhoni and Karthik to play the finishing roles which they do so well.
England batted very well. Their tactic of building a base and working off it worked (for once) with Bell in particular playing a spectacular innings. Cook played a good supporting role too and was well deserving of his maiden ODI hundred. Kevin Pietersen's late over hitting was ideal considering the situation, he was not stupid or reckless but England still managed 73 in the final ten overs.
India on the other hand bowled poorly. There was a feeling of complacency in the Indian bowling and fielding. The bowlers (especially Agarkar) were not running in and bowling fast and so England could adjust to any movement (of which there was minimal) off the pitch. England had some luck in that they would bat defensively, and then each attacking shot would beat the infield and go for four. Whether this was luck or skill will not be known but it was crucial in the course of the match. With the boundary count increasing, Dravid spread the field out. I feel this was a poor move considering he should have continued to strangle England for runs instead of letting them accumilate six an over. None of the bowlers did well, they all concentrated on accuracy and even that they did not do well. One dimentional bowlers do not work in ODIs and India should take that lesson.
India's innings started horribly. Tendulkar played half a dozen (if not more) boundary shots, all of which went straight to the fielders. This helped England build pressure and eventually the run out followed. Tendulkar hit yet more shots to the fielders and in taking the arial route was caught by Bopara. From there, India never got started and the asking rate got too much. England did bowl well though. The pace bowlers bowled extremely fast and showed that 'pace does matter'. Flintoff in particular was fast, hitting 90mph more times than not. The latter run outs were largely due to depression (for lack of a better word) in getting trounced by England and should not be an issue for the future.
Looking toward the future ODIs. Agarkar must go for Munaf Patel. Agarkar was severly uninspiring with his pace and he was expensive. A wicket taking bowler like Agarkar, bowling slow and not moving the ball is pretty useless while Munaf Patel seems to either contain or take plenty of wickets in ODIs. Zaheer and RP Singh should stay in the team but both should look to vary it up - Zaheer with the yorker and RP Singh with his deceptive bouncer. Chawla bowled OK and his batting may provide depth to the team but fields must be set well to him so that England cannot manipulate him for singles.
India's batting order did not work properly at all. Gambhir at three was a spare wheel (or third opener) and did not work well at all. Number three should be your best player and that is why I think Dravid should go there. I think the way to attack England when they are bowling is to go for it in the powerplays leaving no good time to bring on Monty or the medium pacers so I feel Uthappa should open with Tendulkar. Karthik at seven was also a spare wheel, he should go above Dhoni so he is not wasted and Dhoni can shepherd the end of the innings like he does so well.
1) Tendulkar
2) Uthappa
3) Dravid
4) Ganguly
5) Yuvraj
6) Karthik
7) Dhoni
8) Chawla
9) Zaheer Khan
10) RP Singh
11) Munaf Patel
He hardly did nothing. He bowled a great line and length.
Top performance from England, no one let the side down (barring maybe Collys bowling), I laugh when some fans still moan, despite that being one of Englands best ODI performances. When did our all our main seamers last play without one of them getting even a bit of treatment.
Jimmy was the pick of the bowlers, but Broad, Flintoff and Dimi all bowled really well. I thought Prior kept really well, especially with the catch for Dravids wicket. Good stuff England. Keep the faith and Mooresy and the boys will repay us :cool:
I think people saying we could've got 320, are forgetting the size of the outfield, 75M all around, it'll be hard to hit 90 in the last 10, because you'll get so many more 2s/3s than 4s. A huge outfield!
England Rating:
Cook, 9/10 - Batted really well, my only slight concern is that he stll needed to rotate the strike and give Prior more balls (particularly to Agarkar) to face, good catch too.
Prior 7/10 - Batted okayish, but played a poor shot to get out, a 40 odd opening stand was decent though, and gave us a bit of a platform. He kept really well imo, thus the 7 rating as opposed to a 5 or 6.
Bell 10/10 MOTM - Excellent innings, one of the best ODI innings by an England player imo. Is this his kickstart? Also fielded well.
KP, 7/10 - A good little knock of 33 from 25/26 balls. Got us up to 288. I think he's a little wild with his throws though.
Collingwood, 6/10 - Didn't bat, but bowled 5 expensive overs. Good captaincy though I thought.
Flintoff, 8.5/10 - The big man didn't bat, but bowled beautifully.
Bopara, N/A - Didn't bat, didn't bowl. Fielded quite well, don't know what rating to give him though. A 6 maybe?
Mascarenhas, 7.5/10 - Bowled a good tight line, I think his role in our ODI team could be important as a captain always likes to turn to a reliable bowler.
Broad 7.5/10 - Wicketless, but bowled tightly in a very important part of the innings. Impressive for one so young.
Anderson 10/10, did nothing wrong, best bowling figures, best bowler, won us the game. Fielded well, showed energy. A good summer for Jim so far.
Panesar, 6.5/10, didn't bowl that well, had one expensive over (15), but got a big wicket in the run out of Ganguly. A very important wicket.
India have a lot to do for Bristol on Friday. They need a bowler (I'm so glad Bhaji isn't playing), Chawla I'm unsure on and I quite like Powar. maybe Powar and Patel in for Agarkar and Powar. Batting? Karthik isn't a number 7 and needs to be in the top 4. The running between the wickets, was perhaps the worst I've ever seen from a side. Must've missed about 10 runs (at least) from not going for a second/third or thinking the ball had gone for 4. India have a lot to do, despite only being 1-0 down with 6 to go. It seems bigger due to the problems they had.
I don't expect England to do this every game, but I'm optimistic about our chances.
after seeing the highlights last night, England should have scored 30-40 runs more..
we scored hardly any boundaries in any of the power plays, and duringthe last 10 overs we were also poor..
if Bell and Cook had only made 80 each, we'd probly have scored a LOT more runs..
we did bowl well, but i still think we batted like a test team for too many of the overs..
we scored hardly any boundaries in any of the power plays, and duringthe last 10 overs we were also poor..
if Bell and Cook had only made 80 each, we'd probly have scored a LOT more runs..
we did bowl well, but i still think we batted like a test team for too many of the overs..
Although you are finding negatives in England's best ODI performance for a long time, it is true that India could have restricted England to under 250 had they kept the field in and only having fielders out in areas like the deep cover region where they were constantly hitting the ball.
exactly..they showed spider of where the batsmen were scoring runs..
best example i saw was leg stump half-volley which cook and bell were glancing for 1 to fine leg..with NO ONE out on the sq leg or mid wkt boundaries those should have be lofted in those areas for 4 or 6...
same was similar or wide, full ,off-side deliveries which they were trying to drive thru straight mid off... 99% of ODI opener slash that over point for 4 or 6..
this probly cost us 20-30 runs in power plays alone..
best example i saw was leg stump half-volley which cook and bell were glancing for 1 to fine leg..with NO ONE out on the sq leg or mid wkt boundaries those should have be lofted in those areas for 4 or 6...
same was similar or wide, full ,off-side deliveries which they were trying to drive thru straight mid off... 99% of ODI opener slash that over point for 4 or 6..
this probly cost us 20-30 runs in power plays alone..
