India in England/Ireland/Scotland

Well, Trent Bridge is known as a swinging ground since they build the new stand, so Matthew Hoggard would have loved it if he was playing. Ryan Sidebottom plays for Nottinghamshire and is a genuine swing bowler so he should do well.

Sree Sreesanth, Zaheer Khan and RP Singh will all cause problems, that is, if there is any play at all!

Dead right.
The bowlers could be key again meaning India's batsmen have to improve for that test.
Some of Englands batsmen need to find some form as well in Collingwood and Bell but with Vaughan, Pietersen and Prior in form, England look favorites.
 
Sreesanths full name is Shanthakumaran Sreesanth.
I have a mate named that here In chennai and we just call him sree. (Shanthakumaran is his name.)
So I guess Sree is short for Shanthakumaran like Bob is for Robert.
(Or Dick for Richard :p)
 
I didn't watch the first innings at all, but around 200 all out doesn't seem to be a very good score on that pitch. And England were still ahead of the game by 96 runs (so the game wasn't exactly evenly balanced even at that point). At almost every stage England was ahead of the game and India were playing catch-up. I think we should stop listening to Harsha Bhogle and company - they are overoptimistic at best about India's batting.
Really? That's funny seeing that no team crossed 300 in this game, which should be evidence enough that the pitch wasn't the blinder for batting that it was expected to be. England were not ahead at every stage of the game, if you're going by expected gain. Sure, they never trailed in this match, but if you followed the game (which I'm not sure you did live, because you already have claimed that you are bored of live cricket) through the days, you'd notice that the advantage continued to shift session to session. England looked good for 450+ and the Indians bowled very well to restrict them to less than 300. We got off to an ordinary start but at stumps on Day 2 we were placed reasonably well. England didn't get off to a good start in the second innings, losing both their openers for not too many and it took a blinder of an innings from Pietersen to put this game strongly in their favor.

Anyway, I think this is exactly the reason why Indian cricket remains at a mediocre level: because we fans are too forgiving of our past performances.
No, I think the main reason Indian continues to remain in a mediocre level is because fans expect too much. India are not anywhere close to being the best in the world and to expect that they are isn't going to help their cause. I recognized that both teams played good cricket and I really stand by the opinion that Pietersen is what separated the two teams. If Pietersen had scored his average (around 55), then India would have been chasing 300 for victory. Doesn't sound that hard, now, does it?

Against this English attack, we should have got over 400 in the first innings. If Dinesh Kartik and Dhoni could score on that pitch by applying themselves, surely one of the famed Indian batting line up (Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman) could have scored a century.
Did you even watch the match? There's no point going just by names--the English bowling attack bowled really well, and the conditions were very difficult for batting, with overcast conditions for most of the time. Pietersen and Vaughan survived the overcast conditions and then under the sun, Pietersen made merry, without too much swing around. Jimmy Anderson and Ryan Sidebottom were always on target and Tremlett wasn't far behind. The batsmen were ALWAYS under pressure, whether they were not yet off the mark, or they had got around 30. And you will notice that Dhoni's innings was far from one of his best. He stuck it out but he could very easily have gotten out. Karthik, even after reaching a 50, was unable to cope with the outswing.

It's time you start crediting the bowlers a bit, I feel. Sure, our batsmen are supposed to be a few of the best in the world, but they are always going to come across conditions and players who are going to be difficult to face.

England oughta' feel robbed. Outplayed India in all departments & clearly deserved victory.

Dhoni played really well though, albeit he struggled allot early on. Pretty good for someone whose only made 4 First-Class hundreds. :D
Again, they didn't outplay India in all departments. You will notice that each team had a couple of decent knocks with the bat but most batsmen struggled, bar Pietersen in the second innings. Both teams' bowlers bowled really well given the conditions, it was just that the English were on target more often, which put the batsmen under more pressure. In fact, if Pietersen hadn't played that gem of a knock, this game would have looked far closer.
 
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Sohum, yeah, I watched the second innings. :rolleyes: So I didn't go just by scores. I watched some of the action on Star Cricket live since my cable operator apparently decided to show it.. I also watched the dismissal of the Indian and English batsmen in all the innings.

The way some of the Indian batsmen got out clearly showed their old weakness against accurate seam bowling - nothing new there. How many times have Dravid and Laxman got out to the same kind of incoming delivery? How many chances should Wasim Jaffer get in spite of throwing away his wicket after getting a start? How about Tendulkar being forever a bunny of left-arm spinners? Surely Dhoni and Kartik proved that the conditions were not as bad for batting as the rest of the batsmen made it out to be.

Your point about Indian fans expecting too much is only a part of the tale. The way people keep forgeting the past defeats (of very similar nature) is what really allows the Indian team to remain so popular among the fans in spite of being the underperformers that they are in international cricket.

If fans genuinely protested against the quality of cricket by stopping watching cricket, then maybe the BCCI will get worried and start thinking about improving domestic cricket and bringing out real talented players who are groomed for international quality cricket right from the beginning. After all, BCCI treats cricket as business and the paying public are the customers. If TV rights became less valuable over time, maybe that would teach them a lesson to be worried about the actual product...

So they expect a lot, get angry when India lose and then forget it when the next series starts and expect a lot again. That's why I made the point that average Indian fans don't really have realistic desire of seeing their team genuinely improve. The point is we expect a lot, but we don't hold them accountable for past performances and continue patronizing cricket.
 
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Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what you think, just what Buckno' does. :p Even in the innings this gets canceled out because Dravid got an iffy decision and his was a very important wicket.


I'm not sure if you noticed but our bowlers did spray the ball all over the place and definitely did not bowl on one side of the pitch.

1) Yup, you're right it's down to the umpire (though in real time it did look so plumd), and I have said that these things even themselves out.

2) RP was quite accurate throughout the whole game.
 
1) Yup, you're right it's down to the umpire (though in real time it did look so plumd), and I have said that these things even themselves out.

2) RP was quite accurate throughout the whole game.

Yes, Bucknor actually played a crucial role in saving India's match by not giving Sreesanth LBW. So all's quite even there.

I was impressed by RP's bowling, but India's attack still seems to lack sting at those crucial moments...
 
India will need Kumble to fire becuase he has the experience and skill to rebuild or carry on the work the fast bowlers do.
I feel the spinners will be key for the rest of the series since they are the most experienced of the bowlers.
 
Well they will be needed to and will have to improve after Lords but Kumble can rebuild if the quicks don't fire and England don't play leg spin that well.
 
Kumble bowls leg spin? Oh... yes... :p

Let's admit it. India haven't a quality orthodox leggie for a long time now and Kumble just doesn't turn the ball enough in true pitches to be effective. He is an effective wicket-taker on up-and-down pitches, but at best he is a steady kind of bowler on wickets where he doesn't get uneven bounce.
 
Ok, Kumble has 550+ wickets and Sachin Tendulkar has 10,000+ runs, how much did he score in this match?

See, this is exactly what a lot of Indian cricket fans keep quoting. Individual stats. How about some team stats for a change -- how many Test matches India have won abroad in the last 10 years or so? (I mean outside the subcontinent)

I agree that England used to struggle against Kumble, but haven't times changed since the last time India were here?
 
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Not many but its been there seam attack thats been the problem.
They have had good spinners but dont have a seam attack that suit the conditions and have struggled.
 
actually Kumbles record against England is worse than his career avaerge.

I think this is his 3rd tour of England, and he's taken very few wkts against England "IN ENGLAND". (in sub-continent is another story)

Kumble mostly bowls googlies, rarely spins a leggy. As such he's like facing a medium-pacer bowling off-cutters.

99% of his wkts are due to the bounce he gets, not his predigous spin.
 
He gets wickets usually by drift and getting the ball to straighten resulting in lbws.
He will still be effective later in the series as Trent Bridge and The Oval turn on days 4-5.
 

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