India in England/Ireland/Scotland

That's like saying being bitten by a Great White is better than being bitten by a Crocodile.

To be fair, at least The Sun is light, humourous reading whereas the Daily Mail is an ultra depressing, conservative read that makes you feel like theres no reason to live after reading :p

It could of course be argued that England were robbed, but if anyone robbed us it was the weather. That LBW decision was just one of the things that happens in the game. I saw an article on the BBC website saying that Moore defends Vaughan's captaincy. That amused me, I couldn't see a single thing Vaughan did wrong, well no major mistakes anyway.
 
What I don't get is why can't they just switch the lights on (at the grounds that have them) when the light gets too bad? Surely that's preferable to a team getting away with an extremely lucky draw? God, the amount of times this has happened to England recently and today? Nice sunny skies, TYPICAL!
 
I bet I'd find it hilarious to see what everyone will say if India go on to win this series.

Not likely. India's cricket team is in pretty bad shape right now. Dravid has scored two half centuries in the past 12-14 games he's played. Tendulkar's in bad shape but seems to be recovering, but there's Monty. Ganguly makes 40's, but seems to have a problem going on. Laxman has been in and out of the side, so not much can be said of him. Jaffer is either hit or miss - he can get out for zero or score a ton. 0-10 is a lot more common though. That leaves Karthik and Dhoni. I'll leave Karthik alone, but Dhoni's a risky player. He can get out playing his wild shots. When you look at all this, its no wonder that they were bowled out for a little over 200 in the first innings and showed a sub par performance in the second innings. As far as Indian bowlers go, they get wickets and all, but there have been so many times when there'd be MANY wickets down early and they wouldn't put a seal on the match. There's always that one really long partnership that brings the opposition back into the game with them.

To conclude, England should have no problems wrapping this series up. I actually hope that they win both games so Indian fans and players come out of their denial that their team and players are still incredibly good, which is spurred by being overemotional. Now obviously, if that happens, the blame will be that they don't have a coach. But I'm waiting for it to happen a couple of times, so there can be a major change in the team. Only then can measures be taken to construct a cricket team that's worthy of the fan support they get there.

But hey, if it doesn't happen and India wins against the odds, I'm wrong! I want to be wrong, so all of these cricketers that I've watched while growing up do well and win!
 
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To conclude, England should have no problems wrapping this series up. I actually hope that they do a whitewash so Indian fans and players come out of their denial, which is spurred by being overemotional.

That isnt possible as the 1st Test ended in a draw.

I dont think India has improved a bit after the World Cup. They were unconvincing against Bangladesh and I am not surprised to see them struggling against England.
I dont have much hopes either from them in this series.
 
That isnt possible as the 1st Test ended in a draw.

whoops, i meant the remaining games... but yeah, there isn't a single player that's consistently good...maybe karthik but nothing can be said yet
 
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"Sachin has not performed under pressure": Kapil Dev

Almost every other win abroad has a Tendulkar 100 in it. You name it, Pakistan, West Indies, and so on.

This is such rubbish.
 
"Sachin has not performed under pressure": Kapil Dev

Almost every other win abroad has a Tendulkar 100 in it. You name it, Pakistan, West Indies, and so on.

This is such rubbish.

Although I too agree that people target him a bit too often, I also admit that he was a failure in the Lord's test match.

But then there are others who hype him unnecessarily as well. Apparently Gavaskar wants him to play till 2011 giving the reason as Lara was 38 in this year's World Cup.
 
The way some of the Indian batsmen got out clearly showed their old weakness against accurate seam bowling - nothing new there.
Except that approximately 0 wickets fell to good seam bowling and all the wickets, bar the spinners' fell to either the short-pitched delivery or swing. There was nothing overly exciting in the pitch from a bowler's point of view but the swing made it difficult to bat FOR BOTH SIDES.

How many times have Dravid and Laxman got out to the same kind of incoming delivery? How many chances should Wasim Jaffer get in spite of throwing away his wicket after getting a start? How about Tendulkar being forever a bunny of left-arm spinners? Surely Dhoni and Kartik proved that the conditions were not as bad for batting as the rest of the batsmen made it out to be.
Karthik scored most of his runs when the conditions became sunnier in the evening session and hence there was less swing. Since you claim to have watched the second innings, you will surely notice that he struggled as soon as the ball swung, again, and was dismissed edging an outswinger. Surely that is enough proof to show that even Karthik struggled with the swing? As for Dhoni, he played and missed consistently at the beginning of his innings but he had the luck to get through.

And as for all your "how many" questions, every batsman has their weaknesses. That does not mean you drop them. If you are suggesting dropping players of the caliber of Dravid, claiming that they aren't performing up to expected levels, I am really going to have to start ignoring your posts.

Your point about Indian fans expecting too much is only a part of the tale. The way people keep forgeting the past defeats (of very similar nature) is what really allows the Indian team to remain so popular among the fans in spite of being the underperformers that they are in international cricket.
The reason that the Indian team is popular is because cricket is the only sport with enough money in it in India. I really don't think we have any right to feel that we have been cheated if India don't perform as we expect them to, just as users of Facebook had no right to complain when Facebook changed their user interface. No one has forgotten past defeats and indeed many allusions were made to situations in South Africa and West Indies where we lost a match we could have drawn just because we couldn't bat out another 30 minutes.

If fans genuinely protested against the quality of cricket by stopping watching cricket, then maybe the BCCI will get worried and start thinking about improving domestic cricket and bringing out real talented players who are groomed for international quality cricket right from the beginning. After all, BCCI treats cricket as business and the paying public are the customers. If TV rights became less valuable over time, maybe that would teach them a lesson to be worried about the actual product...
That's really the problem, isn't it? It seems to me that you feel some ownership over Indian cricket which you don't have. For me, cricket itself is more important than Indian cricket. I prefer, obviously, if the Indian cricket team does well, but I won't stop watching cricket just because they cannot perform as consistently as Australia.

So they expect a lot, get angry when India lose and then forget it when the next series starts and expect a lot again. That's why I made the point that average Indian fans don't really have realistic desire of seeing their team genuinely improve. The point is we expect a lot, but we don't hold them accountable for past performances and continue patronizing cricket.
There's nothing else to turn to, is there? Our hockey team has been performing shambolically for ages, except for an odd good tournament here and there. Our athletes and weightlifters continue to disgrace themselves by testing positive for banned substances. Chess is not exactly an exciting sport to watch. Cricket is the only sport one can follow in India and our team is not that bad that we should go around sulking and boycotting the game.

Some people are saying that Kumble needs to fire. I dont agree. I think the Indian bowlers did their job even when Kumble didn't fire. They restricted England to below 300 both of the times. Zaheer, RP, and Sree are a decent bowling attack. However, the batting needs a lot of help. Does India have an opener in Dravid or Ganguly? I remember that Dravid has, and often there has been talk of Ganguly opening (don't recall it happening though), but I don't know their average in that slot, but if they could, one of them could replace Jaffer and Yuvraj can get a spot lower down the order. Of course, we're taking them out of their comfort zone, so it's their decision.
To be honest, I shudder to think how RP, Zaheer and Sree will perform in conditions where there is no swing on offer. I believe we got a pretty good taste of it during the first day of play at Lord's. As for Ganguly opening, I don't think he's up to it. The new ball will bounce more and move around more, and I don't think he's good enough to see it off.

Looking back at it, and what happened after it, The Daily Mail are right, England were robbed. All papers over-exaggerate though, this is no exception.
By the same token, I can claim that India were robbed when Dravid was dismissed and that we would not have had a middle order collapse because he would have held the innings together.

Dravid has scored two half centuries in the past 12-14 games he's played.
Code:
Filter: most recent 15 matches.
Sort order: chronological.

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           110  187  22  9377 270  233  222   56.83  24  47   6
filtered              15   28   3  1246 146  129  103   49.84   3   8   0
 
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Ganguly to open? Lmao. That would be a diaster! He got cleaned bowled by Anderson where it would've hit allot of other left handers on the pads.
 
Last quote was ownage, Sohum :p
Yeah, I hate how our Indian fans are so negative. Lets just enjoy the game and hope our players do the best they can!
I have a gut feeling we may edge out in this.
 
I have no further desire to argue with you sohum, since you pick up each of my points and disagree for the sake of disagreeing. It seems to me that you take special pleasure in argument for whatever reason. I don't.

Let it rest at that. I am not passionate enough about Indian cricket to keep pulling out stats to prove my point. I've watched cricket for around 10-15 years now and all I know is that nothing much has changed over the years... It's hard to sustain optimism of the kind I see among fans because it's unrealistic -- it's not "expectation" - it's fantasy. Even cricket itself doesn't excite me as it used to, and I now see the game for what it is: a boring game played by 22 fools watched by... anyway you get my point.

I admire your keen insights into the game nevertheless.

India will keep winning a few games here and there and lose a lot more than they win. I don't claim "ownership" of Indian cricket as you seem to think and my main point was why people continue to patronize this game to the exclusion of all others and that is why the game's administrators are so smug and secure... Yes, other games may not be as popular in India, but have the fans really given other games a chance? Yet we are so accepting of mediocrity in cricket and ignore other sports where India is equally mediocre but improving over time.

I retire from this thread. :)
 
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What I don't get is why can't they just switch the lights on (at the grounds that have them) when the light gets too bad? Surely that's preferable to a team getting away with an extremely lucky draw? God, the amount of times this has happened to England recently and today? Nice sunny skies, TYPICAL!

Lords's doesn't have Floodlights.
 

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