India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[Skater]

Being Anti-DRS is not the same thing as being Anti-Review.

I am totally Anti-DRS because the way DRS intends to go about the review is flawed, and I am not sure all the tech works, especially Hot Spot.

The ones that DRS gets right in terms of review are very basic pedestrian ones, that the naked eye on a simple replay would have gotten right anyway. Prior dismissal being the perfect example there. Anyone who saw the replay knows there was no edge, its a howler, the third Umpire saw it to, so get on the walkie, tell the Umpire there was no edge and its job done, error corrected.

The ones like the Vijay LBW are the DRS reviews I am not a fan of, to the naked eye Vijay was LBW, and that should be the end of it, that Hawk Eye showed the ball was going over is fine, no need to make a fuss on it. It looked out and was not a 'howler'

DRS was brought in to correct the howlers and to correct howlers, simple replays suffice. THird Umpire earn your wages, and use the walkie a bit more. No need for a flawed system with flawed tech to correct howlers.

The only grey area I have is with Hot Spot. Even the man who invented it says it's not foolproof. But I really think we should put all our faith in Hawkeye as the best system we have. If Hawkeye showed the ball as going over the top, then it's not out and the decision should be overturned.

 

[aditya123]

See? We've collapsed. You Indian fans need to stop being so pessimistic and realise that you're all over us here.

@Skater we have bossed test matches in SA and NZ , only to mess things up recently. Unlike what people assume, outside of the 8-0 in 2011, we have generally competed well in tests overseas since 2002. This new bunch has shown it can play abroad but is incapable of finishing sides off in tests as of yet. Hence the pessimism.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

DRS was brought in to correct the howlers and to correct howlers, simple replays suffice. THird Umpire earn your wages, and use the walkie a bit more. No need for a flawed system with flawed tech to correct howlers.

yep, and in this it fails if you have already used your two reviews, see broad against australia.

it does improve accuracy, there's not doubt about that, but it's a very poor use of the technology as it stands.

 

[Skater]

@Skater we have bossed test matches in SA and NZ , only to mess things up recently. Unlike what people assume, outside of the 8-0 in 2011, we have generally competed well in tests overseas since 2002. This new bunch has shown it can play abroad but is incapable of finishing sides off in tests as of yet. Hence the pessimism.

But you're underestimating quite how utterly turd-like England are at the moment. South Africa are the best side in the world. New Zealand are improving by the game. England are in their worst state since 1999. The only two results possible here are an India win or a draw.

 

[PokerAce]

The only grey area I have is with Hot Spot. Even the man who invented it says it's not foolproof. But I really think we should put all our faith in Hawkeye as the best system we have. If Hawkeye showed the ball as going over the top, then it's not out and the decision should be overturned.

I would trust Hawkeye but in the case of Vijay dismissal it tends to cross a line with me. I mean its changing the way a batsman should bat, or seriously altering the flow of the game. Cricket has been played for over 100 years and in each and everyone of those 100 years no one would complain about that LBW dismissal of Vijay. It just looked out and the Umpire gave it out.

Now we turn up a 100 years later and are expected to create a fuss because some tech shows the ball would have gone over a few inches !! Thats too fussy and unnecessary and is UNDUE interference with the game and the traditional flow of it.

I am fine with those being given or not given. THe howlers we need to remove and the Prior dismissal was a howler and a simple replay is enough to correct that. So I am Pro-Review for Howlers, but anti-DRS. It just interferes too much with how the game has been played for centuries and like you said, not all the tech works 100 %.

 

[grkrama]

ya nobody is against technology its there in every facet of the game but the way DRS its implemented like some sort of lucky draw and cause imbalance to the game,instead of actually being a system to minimize errors.

 

[PokerAce]

yep, and in this it fails if you have already used your two reviews, see broad against australia.

it does improve accuracy, there's not doubt about that, but it's a very poor use of the technology as it stands.

Yeah if the Third Umpire auto-reviews ALL potential howlers, then there needn't be a restriction placed on how many howlers can be corrected per innings. I am pro-Review but totally anti-DRS. The system doesn't make enough sense.

What is it with 'only' correcting two howlers per innings ! The Broad review as you said. Its almost as if the third howler doesn't matter !

The third Umpire use your walkie a bit, and auto-correct howlers. No limit and we can get a lot more right.

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What is with the crowd, on TV it sounds like there is a lot of Booing going on.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Ishant can still enjoy an Anderson-esque renaissance with time on his side. Anderson was equally erratic until 2008-09, from where he established himself as one of the world's best(the number of tests played by Anderson was vastly less, though).

 

[Skater]

What is with the crowd, on TV it sounds like there is a lot of Booing going on.

Sounds like a few guys are trying to get a Mexican wave going and they're booing those who don't join in. Which appears to be everyone.

It's also possible that they are cheering Joe Root. Whenever he's involved they chant 'Roooooooooooooooot' and it sounds like booing.

 

[PokerAce]

I feel the follow on is a bit of a non issue here. Even if England are bowled out before the follow on target of 257, I am not sure India would enforce the follow on.

They would want to bat till tea tomorrow and rough up the pitch more to bring the spinner into play and the surface will only get more uneven for batting.

 

[Epic]

Being Anti-DRS is not the same thing as being Anti-Review.

I am totally Anti-DRS because the way DRS intends to go about the review is flawed, and I am not sure all the tech works, especially Hot Spot.

The ones that DRS gets right in terms of review are very basic pedestrian ones, that the naked eye on a simple replay would have gotten right anyway. Prior dismissal being the perfect example there. Anyone who saw the replay knows there was no edge, its a howler, the third Umpire saw it to, so get on the walkie, tell the Umpire there was no edge and its job done, error corrected.

The ones like the Vijay LBW are the DRS reviews I am not a fan of, to the naked eye Vijay was LBW, and that should be the end of it, that Hawk Eye showed the ball was going over is fine, no need to make a fuss on it. It looked out and was not a 'howler'

DRS was brought in to correct the howlers and to correct howlers, simple replays suffice. THird Umpire earn your wages, and use the walkie a bit more. No need for a flawed system with flawed tech to correct howlers.

This is fine for today, hand all the technology that comes with DRS to the 3rd umpire, let him overturn howlers, but this is not what I'm concerned with, I see the bigger picture.

I would trust Hawkeye but in the case of Vijay dismissal it tends to cross a line with me. I mean its changing the way a batsman should bat, or seriously altering the flow of the game. Cricket has been played for over 100 years and in each and everyone of those 100 years no one would complain about that LBW dismissal of Vijay. It just looked out and the Umpire gave it out.

Now we turn up a 100 years later and are expected to create a fuss because some tech shows the ball would have gone over a few inches !! Thats too fussy and unnecessary and is UNDUE interference with the game and the traditional flow of it.

I am fine with those being given or not given. THe howlers we need to remove and the Prior dismissal was a howler and a simple replay is enough to correct that. So I am Pro-Review for Howlers, but anti-DRS. It just interferes too much with how the game has been played for centuries and like you said, not all the tech works 100 %.

I don't think you understand what makes a howler an howler, an howler exists because of the standard that's set, you remove all the howlers, well whatever you don't see as howlers, things like the Vijay decision, will become an howler, and this game flow argument is more flawed than DRS itself, this is the same sport where 11 players stop after each over to change ends... if the first men that played this sport were worried about game flow, the 2 batsmen would just swap sides after each over.

 

[Aalay]

reminds me of this

It is happening.

 

[PokerAce]

This is fine for today, hand all the technology that comes with DRS to the 3rd umpire, let him overturn howlers, but this is not what I'm concerned with, I see the bigger picture ... and this game flow argument is more flawed than DRS itself, this is the same sport where 11 players stop after each over to change ends... if the first men that played this sport were worried about game flow, the batsmen would be changing ends.

What is the bigger picture do tell?

Also by game flow, I don't mean that the game is more stop start. What I mean is decisions that each of the 100 years you would go with the flow on, like the Vijay dismissal (looked out, given out), and not complain about in any of the 100+ plus years of cricket, are now meant to be fussed over, because some tech tells us otherwise. Maybe it would go over, but in 100+ out of 100+ years of cricket, that would be given out and that is how it should be. So contrary to you argument, even if u remove the real howlers, the Prior dismissal for instance, the Vijay LBW will never become a howler, because thats exactly what would be the decision in any other Era of cricket. Vijay dismissal not Howler, stop fussing over it ... Prior Dismissal, definite howler ... needs to go, and a simple auto-correct from Third Umpire fixes it.

The game of Cricket has been played perfectly well and flourished with plenty of highs without anyone ever feeling the need to know 'exactly' down to millimeters, if the ball on an LBW dismissal would 'definitely' hit the stumps. If it 'seems' it will very likely hit the stumps, then LBW should be given. That is in the rules of the game, and that is how it should be. The umpire is supposed to make up his own mind on whether the Ball would hit the stumps and not have his mind made up for him by some tech made up of magical rainbows, that the ball would hit the stumps. Thats how the game should be played. Small margin LBWs this way or that are fine.

Fussing over small margins will reduce cricket to being American Football, 15 secs of play and then 5 mins of watching replays.

 

[SaiSrini]

Adi's pessimism seems well placed. Root and Broad are spoiling it for India here. I dont think the new ball is going to help us much.

Broad is smashing the new ball here. Ominous signs for India!

 

[Epic]

What is the bigger picture do tell?

You sure you want to know? There's no going back... no wrong decisions ever!

Also by game flow, I don't mean that the game is more stop start. What I mean is decisions that each of the 100 years you would go with the flow on, like the Vijay dismissal (looked out, given out), and not complain about in any of the 100+ plus years of cricket, are now meant to be fussed over, because some tech tells us otherwise. Maybe it would go over, but in 100+ out of 100+ years of cricket, that would be given out and that is how it should be. So contrary to you argument, even if u remove the real howlers, the Prior dismissal for instance, the Vijay LBW will never become a howler, because thats exactly what would be the decision in any other Era of cricket. Vijay dismissal not Howler, stop fussing over it ... Prior Dismissal, definite howler ... needs to go, and a simple auto-correct from Third Umpire fixes it.

Fussing over small margins will reduce cricket to being American Football, 15 secs of play and then 5 mins of watching replays.

First of, the Vijay decision did not look out and what you're talking about is not game flow, what you're talking about is wanting time to stop, nothing to change and to be stuck in the 1900s. You bring up eras in cricket, do you know what separates each era from the other? Change, the technology era across all sports is upon us, those who refuse to change, will get left behind, and the way you're approaching wrong decisions is horrible, by splitting it up into 2 sides of howlers and not howlers, they're all wrong, and maybe you're okay with it, but me, I'm not going to pick a pair of human eyes over a ball tracking system.