India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[Epic]

Even now a test championship isn't feasible due to a match taking five days. The West Inidans were the champions in the 80's early 90's followed by the Aussies, now the South Africans.

If the English can get up to anything above 300 would be a mighty ask of the Indians. Maybe this is the game where Kholi will finally produce a legendary test inns, we all know he is capable of it, if he doesnt fire and England make over 300, game over for the Indians!

I understand the trouble in scheduling a tournament around Test cricket, but I feel it's about tweaking time we find a way, I actually thought the plans for the World Test Championship scheduled for 2017 looked quite good, 3 Tests total taking 3 weeks in June with possibly a timeless Test played in the final.

I also understand your point about cricket fans just knowing who the undisputed champion is, but that's besides the point, it's the spectacle that creates adulation and I fear other than becoming #1 in Tests (which can be stripped from you at any point, War could tell you all about this), Australia or England winning the Ashes and India or Pakistan beating each other in a Test series, there's really nothing else Test cricket can offer at the magnitude of winning the World Cup or World Twenty20 and those tournaments deliver such moments every 4 years and every 2 years respectively.[DOUBLEPOST=1407526641][/DOUBLEPOST]On the topic of the death of ODI cricket or the supposed death, I don't care, just please kill it already, it has no purpose anymore other than being a bridge between Tests and T20s, more than half of it is not entertaining and the less than half of entertainment it offers is what T20s are, it takes twice the amount of time as a T20, can't start at night and T20s are a bigger cash cow and this supposed argument that it takes more skill than a T20 is laughable, the overs between the 2 powerplays is not skillful, it's tweaking boring, I rather watch Root and Buttler nudge singles off Dhoni's defensive fields, actually that's exactly what the middle overs are.

 

[SaiSrini]

Now thats the pinnacle of cricket for me, nothing beats a clash between these teams. I dont call myslef a fan of English or Australian cricket but with all the traditions and history associated with the ashes I can understand why the fans of both sides enjoy the ashes immensely. To think otherwise would be an insult to them.

I agree that ODI is still top in India and thats why in one of my posts on this thread I posted that it was Ironic the Indians are killing ODI the most with the advent of T20 cricket. Sometimes I think all the euphoria about the ODI world cup is because it is rare, occurs every four years and I am certain if India loss the next two worldcups ( which may well happen), ODI cricket will surely lose popularity in India and by your calculations die!

It took us 28 years to win the World Cup again, but ODI's popularity never went down. In fact, ODI cricket took off big time in India in the 90's during the Tendulkar era (and even more subsequently after the arrival of Ganguly and Dravid) when we never won any World Cups during that period.

T20 will never kill the ODI. In fact I am going to go as far and say that T20's will make the Indian audience appreciate an ODI the most. T20 could make them feel like test cricket is too long, but it will also likely make them feel nauseated with the continuous barrage of big hitting. And they will likely settle down with the ODI. That's what I am feeling right now. I miss the ODI. Good ODI's that is, not the meaningless ones.

 

[Epic]

I couldn't disagree more, T20s have shown me all the flaws that exist with ODIs, flaws that have existed since the formats conception, hence all the power play changes and now the 2 new balls from both ends, which has completely killed any chance of reverse swing or turn within the 50 over period, something that won't be changed until the conclusion of the 2015 World Cup if there's any chance of it.

I would say there's no such thing as good ODIs, but even if there were that's a 2 month period when the World Cup and Champions Trophy are played 2 years apart, enjoy weaving through pointless 3/5/7 match ODI series' in the name of preparing for those 2 months out of 48.

 

[SaiSrini]

I couldn't disagree more, T20s have shown me all the flaws that exist with ODIs, flaws that have existed since the formats conception, hence all the power play changes and now the 2 new balls from both ends, which has completely killed any chance of reverse swing or turn within the 50 over period, something that won't be changed until the conclusion of the 2015 World Cup if there's any chance of it.

I would say there's no such thing as good ODIs, but even if there were that's a 2 month period when the World Cup and Champions Trophy are played 2 years apart, enjoy weaving through pointless 3/5/7 match ODI series' in the name of preparing for those 2 months out of 48.

I disagree with this. A bilateral series of 3 ODI's (with the occasional 5 ODI bilateral between really popular nations, like India vs Aus, Aus vs SA, Eng vs Aus, Ind vs Pak) is still very entertaining. Throw in more multi nation tournaments (e.g. CB series, tri nation tournaments, etc) and ODI's will be glorious as ever. Its only the overkill of 7 match series, that make ODI's boring.

 

[Satan666]

It took us 28 years to win the World Cup again, but ODI's popularity never went down. In fact, ODI cricket took off big time in India in the 90's during the Tendulkar era (and even more subsequently after the arrival of Ganguly and Dravid) when we never won any World Cups during that period.

T20 will never kill the ODI. In fact I am going to go as far and say that T20's will make the Indian audience appreciate an ODI the most. T20 could make them feel like test cricket is too long, but it will also likely make them feel nauseated with the continuous barrage of big hitting. And they will likely settle down with the ODI. That's what I am feeling right now. I miss the ODI. Good ODI's that is, not the meaningless ones.

Defeating the mighty WI team after two successive world cup wins in '83 is what actually started the mad craze for cricket in India. Till now that spark is still there heighten by a couple world cup wins but moreso with the advent of T20 cricket!

I like your view that ODI will kill T20, its a traditionalist view as yourself, whereas Epic represents the view of the general fans of cricket.

I understand the trouble in scheduling a tournament around Test cricket, but I feel it's about tweaking time we find a way, I actually thought the plans for the World Test Championship scheduled for 2017 looked quite good, 3 Tests total taking 3 weeks in June with possibly a timeless Test played in the final.

I also understand your point about cricket fans just knowing who the undisputed champion is, but that's besides the point, it's the spectacle that creates adulation and I fear other than becoming #1 in Tests (which can be stripped from you at any point, War could tell you all about this), Australia or England winning the Ashes and India or Pakistan beating each other in a Test series, there's really nothing else Test cricket can offer at the magnitude of winning the World Cup or World Twenty20 and those tournaments deliver such moments every 4 years and every 2 years respectively.[DOUBLEPOST=1407526641][/DOUBLEPOST]On the topic of the death of ODI cricket or the supposed death, I don't care, just please kill it already, it has no purpose anymore other than being a bridge between Tests and T20s, more than half of it is not entertaining and the less than half of entertainment it offers is what T20s are, it takes twice the amount of time as a T20, can't start at night and T20s are a bigger cash cow and this supposed argument that it takes more skill than a T20 is laughable, the overs between the 2 powerplays is not skillful, it's tweaking boring, I rather watch Root and Buttler nudge singles off Dhoni's defensive fields, actually that's exactly what the middle overs are.

I admit I am posting blind since I havent reviewed the scheduling of the propsed test championships, if you say it needs minor tweaking then that sounds good.

Also I couldn't agree more, its high time for ODI cricket to see the backdoor. The triangular series still excite me though, probably because they're not playing much these days.

 

[Epic]

I disagree with this. A bilateral series of 3 ODI's (with the occasional 5 ODI bilateral between really popular nations, like India vs Aus, Aus vs SA, Eng vs Aus, Ind vs Pak) is still very entertaining. Throw in more multi nation tournaments (e.g. CB series, tri nation tournaments, etc) and ODI's will be glorious as ever. Its only the overkill of 7 match series, that make ODI's boring.

We haven't even seen this applied to T20Is, other than the odd 3 match series, the rest are pointless 1 off matches to end tours, our judgement of T20s is based on leagues like the IPL and BBL, in one of your earlier posts you said that the continuous barrage of big hitting leaves people nauseated, I fear of what 2 months of non-stop 50 over cricket every year in the form of domestic leagues would do to us.

 

[grkrama]

One thing that's going against ODI is the 2 new ball rule whoever did that tosh to them, they have totally killed it for spinners, other than that it is still the ideal format to play among nations without lowering yourself to slogathon levels.

there is t20 world cup its certainly not as good or important as ODI one we dont really care that much loosing there,were as if it was ODI one we would have been gutted.

We haven't even seen this applied to T20Is, other than the odd 3 match series, the rest are pointless 1 off matches to end tours, our judgement of T20s is based on leagues like the IPL and BBL, in one of your earlier posts you said that the continuous barrage of big hitting leaves people nauseated, I fear of what 2 months of non-stop 50 over cricket every year in the form of domestic leagues would do to us.

T20's will always be like a cheap thrill, cause the level of cricket is lowered and bits and pieces players will shine more, and the main villain for t20 will always be tests, once people watch it t20 will always feel cheap. due to the players who succeed in it as well their skill set, ODI is were you get a decent balance of thrill and quality, though this 2 new ball rule has to go, one area were i would highly recommend BCCI to bully and get it done. Even then ODI is still were you can actuallly judge and have competitions, not because t20 is not doing it, but this is the platform were player skills are brought out properly.

Defeating the mighty WI team after two successive world cup wins in '83 is what actually started the mad craze for cricket in India.

not really, India was cricket crazy long before that, kamarajar i think, one of our CM's in 1950 he had once said "11 fools play and 11 crore fools watch it" or something, he was being critical on the sport but you get the idea at that time India population was around 30 crore.

players in each era like patudi, vijay merchant, bedi,hazare and whole lot of others were already super stars in the nation.

Its always easy to think the era we know or live in is the most popular cause we have more info and also increasing population and media, but the sport has always been popular and wont change anytime soon.

 

[richowebbo]

Well I am sure the Ashes feels more Important, because England have felt the Euphoria of winning an Ashes, once they win the world cup, I am sure they will realise that an Ashes doesn't come close to winning the world Cup (The 50 Overs, one). The t20 world cup is more a fan service thing than anything.

Also 50 over cricket dead ... really? All major cricket tournaments are still 50 overs ... WC, CT, Asia Cup. You are clearly taking T20 too seriously. T20 is fan service. On a tour no one even cares, what the result was in the T20 fixtures. Its always the Test series, then ODI seris and T20 series, who cares?

[DOUBLEPOST=1407495666][/DOUBLEPOST]

50 overs obviously. And yes Individually Test Cricket tests a cricketer most, but as a team, winning the 50 over World Cup is (wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy x 10000000000) bigger than winning some random test series.

T20 is better than 50 overs in my opinion.

Winning the world cup would be nice, sure, but the Ashes are more important to most of the people I know. I couldn;t tell you anything about previous Cricket World Cups, but could tell you lots of stuff about various tours over the last 20 years I've been watching cricket. Tours are more memorable, and T20 run chases etc, are very exciting. 50 over cricket bores me.

 

[grkrama]

A fantastic read about MSD, what makes him who he is and how he is operating, lots of fan trivia and stuff you dont know about him.

Cover story | The star we don't know | The Cricket Monthly | ESPN Cricinfo

Dhoni is a contradictory sort of hero, detached yet entrenched, not available yet available, but not quite, a complex man obsessed with keeping things simple, instinctive in one form of the game and stubborn in another, the most successful Indian captain ever, yet the most helpless when losing. For someone who has brought immense excitement to Indian cricket, Dhoni's story is not overly dramatic. Heroes and villains don't roll off the pages. Which makes it more compelling. The story is grander than simple drama: small-town boy becomes India captain, the best ODI batsman, the richest cricketer in the world, the most powerful too, and, always, beyond our reach.

Srinivasan still has to call Raina if he needs to talk to his captain, because Dhoni makes no exceptions when it comes to not answering the phone.

 

[lion100lion]

A fantastic read about MSD

how to read that ? I mean do we need to log in ?

 

[grkrama]

ya you need to login to espn cricinfo account its easy sign up you can use gmail login too.

 

[aditya123]

How does someone explain Dhoni starting off with the least threatening bowlers in this innings? He did this post lunch yesterday and still hasnt given Aaron or Kumar the ball. Who comes up with these ideas?

If you guys tell me Dhoni`s captaincy is not hindering our chances in test cricket, I think you are watching a different game. Pankaj Singh still gets the new ball ahead of Aaron who has`nt bowled a single decent spell since lunch yesterday. If we were looking to stay in the game and take it ahead, we would have started with Kumar and Aaron straight away today. Our bowling choices gave away the fact that we are yet again hoping to delay the inevitable and hoping rain saves us. God save us if we keep persisting with this team management.

 

[PokerAce]

I think ODI form of cricket is dying and has been dying for some years now. Not sure if you have read articles on a proposed 4 inns ODI type format. Ironically enogh the Indians are promoting the T20 brand which in itself is the chief tormentor of the ODI format. Anyway enough of this side talk maybe we can create a thread and discuss it there. Patiently waiting for an inns defeat here!

T20 is not a tormentor of ODI Cricket at all, if anything T20 has given life to ODIs, where the fans have now understood, there is much more of a contest between Bat and ball, and some strategy still comes into play which can be changed according to the situation. T20 is just boring, waiting for 6s and nothing else. ODI is much more of a game, and after the IPL, Indian fans are saturated from T20 for the rest of the year. One of the reasons why the Indian team plays so few T20 Int'l, no one in India wants to watch any more T20 after the IPL.

Actually ppl in India have the three formats figured out just right, and all three thrive in India. Tests continue to hold their own (in poker terms Deep stack Heads Up games, which in Poker in many ways are the pinnacle of Poker), ODI tournaments are the like MTT Final Tables, you need super skill to win an MTT Final Table. Not every one starts an MTT final table with the same stack (same number of Chips), but once there you need to figure out exactly when to make your move, and knock down the big stacks. The Big Stacks have a huge advantage of course, but the small stacks can still play within their limitations, and hold out, if not for a win, but at least decent position. All World Cups of any sport are like MTTs in this regard. HU tournaments are great for personal prestige and pride, much like a bilateral Test Series, if say India were to win in SA, it would boost India's image as a tough team, but thats about all. Real glory is in winning the MTTs, that is where the legends are made.

Lastly t20 tournaments are like Super Turbo tournaments, where the blinds increase very quickly. Skill matters a little bit, but much less, but one has to be super aggressive, but above all the clock matters the most, because the time is so limited. (Trust me if anyone here plays poker, he will love the comparison of T20s with STs, its just so apt). Moves that would be considered madness in any other kind of tournament can have rich payoffs, just like T20.

A poker lover loves the challenge all three formats bring, but ST tournaments are still more like guilty pleasures, and you don't really gain any prestige, or much prestige by winning ST tournaments, just as T20, its a bit of a lottery. Trust me, as an Indian fan I have seen India lift the T20 world cup and the 50 over World Cup, and honestly the T20 world cup felt almost insignificant in comparison. I would it felt even less thrilling than winning the CT. 50 Over World > CT > Random Test Series (Even beating Australia or SA 5-0 away is not the same as winning the World Cup, not even close) > Anything T20.

 

[PokerAce]

It took us 28 years to win the World Cup again, but ODI's popularity never went down. In fact, ODI cricket took off big time in India in the 90's during the Tendulkar era (and even more subsequently after the arrival of Ganguly and Dravid) when we never won any World Cups during that period.

T20 will never kill the ODI. In fact I am going to go as far and say that T20's will make the Indian audience appreciate an ODI the most. T20 could make them feel like test cricket is too long, but it will also likely make them feel nauseated with the continuous barrage of big hitting. And they will likely settle down with the ODI. That's what I am feeling right now. I miss the ODI. Good ODI's that is, not the meaningless ones.

Forget never won anything, 90s is when India were at their most rubbish. Got thrashed everywhere in ODIs, especially in Sharjah by Pakistan, every time India went there. Yet the popularity kept on rising. And yes T20 eventually becomes nauseating, and interest in IPL just falls away after the start, to pick a bit towads the KO and Final. In between you walk into a club, and you IPL on the big screens and its like just hit a six already !! Who is playing doesnt matter, and all teams are exchangable. Honestly IPL means more to the players cos of the big money, as viewers, the Indian fans are kinda saturated with the IPL.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

As much as I hate to say this, Pankaj now looks out of his depth. He has lost his consistency which made him such a potent force in Ranji.