India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[PokerAce]

Most of those wins you are throwing out here are ODI tournaments. I am not even remotely questioning Dhoni's captaincy in ODI's. I am ONLY TALKING ABOUT HIS TEST CAPTAINCY! Dhoni to me is an ODI legend! I am a massive fan of the guy in ODI's, only next to my love for Sachin Tendulkar. But he has been massively incompetent in test cricket, be it with captaincy or with the bat. No captain would survive a 8-0 whitewash overseas, Dhoni survived it and beyond and is still being part of so many overseas defeats (and that too painful defeats like this) without being questioned at all. He is immovable to the point where you can say he has a monopoly.

And always, overseas wins will be given more weight than home wins due to the challenging conditions. For us always, winning overseas is what matters. Today Saurav Ganguly is considered India's greatest captain ever because he (along with people like Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar) changed India's fortunes overseas. There have been lot of instances in the past where captains have been sacked after overseas series defeats. Dhoni is a very rare instance where a captain was not sacked even after a 8-0 whitewash. And seeing our results post the retirement of seniors, the margin of defeat has changed but we continue to play/lose badly.

What again are u fixating on the 8-0, two series about 8 months apart and in between the wins at home don't count? Everyone knows the 1 - 3 -15 run overseas, but what about the 11-2-2 run in the same period at home? You are saying sack Dhoni because he cannot win overseas, well which Indian captain has? There was a good run under Dravid, when India won in ENg and NZ, but thats the best it has EVER got for India overseas.

Thats the point, apart from not winning Overseas, which No Ind Captain has done with any great consistency ever anyway ... what wrong has Dhoni done. Still has one of the best home test records, and has won all kind an manner of ODI and T20 tournaments for India

Sack him for doing everything right, apart from having that one failing that thousands have had before him anyway.
.

 

[Epic]

Most of those wins you are throwing out here are ODI tournaments. I am not even remotely questioning Dhoni's captaincy in ODI's. I am ONLY TALKING ABOUT HIS TEST CAPTAINCY! Dhoni to me is an ODI legend! I am a massive fan of the guy in ODI's, only next to my love for Sachin Tendulkar. But he has been massively incompetent in test cricket, be it with captaincy or with the bat. No captain would survive a 8-0 whitewash overseas, Dhoni survived it and beyond and is still being part of so many overseas defeats (and that too painful defeats like this) without being questioned at all. He is immovable to the point where you can say he has a monopoly.

And always, overseas wins will be given more weight than home wins due to the challenging conditions. For us always, winning overseas is what matters. Today Saurav Ganguly is considered India's greatest captain ever because he (along with people like Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar) changed India's fortunes overseas. There have been lot of instances in the past where captains have been sacked after overseas series defeats. Dhoni is a very rare instance where a captain was not sacked even after a 8-0 whitewash. And seeing our results post the retirement of seniors, the margin of defeat has changed but we continue to play/lose badly.

Yes, Ganguly and his countless away wins in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh put him up there with the best of them.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

It will be hilarious if the next 2 days are washed out(assuming India survive this day) and India proceed to win the next match

 

[SaiSrini]

Yes, Ganguly and his countless away wins in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh put him up there with the rest of them.

I am stunned! How do I react to this 'supposedly sarcastic' post...... WOW, just a massive friggin' WOW! My threshold of the wierd (putting it polite) stuff that I've been reading these days just has hit the peak here.

 

[SaiSrini]

What again are u fixating on the 8-0, two series about 8 months apart and in between the wins at home don't count? Everyone knows the 1 - 3 -15 run overseas, but what about the 11-2-2 run in the same period at home? You are saying sack Dhoni because he cannot win overseas, well which Indian captain has? There was a good run under Dravid, when India won in ENg and NZ, but thats the best it has EVER got for India overseas.

Thats the point, apart from not winning Overseas, which No Ind Captain has done with any great consistency ever anyway ... what wrong has Dhoni done. Still has one of the best home test records, and has won all kind an manner of ODI and T20 tournaments for India

Sack him for doing everything right, apart from having that one failing that thousands have had before him anyway.
.

So you are saying that Dhoni should be retained because he wins at home, even though his team plays this bad overseas? Why do we even play overseas then? Lets play all our games at home. Does that sound right to you? Overseas performance has always been the barometer and should continue to be if India have to progress as a performing nation in cricket.

Even after we lose this series, there will only be a select few who will be replaced (just to show that chopping/changing has happened). The actual chopping/changing should happen at the top with the captain is what I am saying.

 

[Epic]

I am stunned! How do I react to this 'supposedly sarcastic' post...... WOW, just a massive friggin' WOW! My threshold of the wierd (putting it polite) stuff that I've been reading these days just has hit the peak here.

You covered your ass by putting Dravid's name in there, but I still felt it was necessary to call out Ganguly's overrated away record.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

11 overseas wins, of which 6 in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, I rest my case.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Tbf, India can experiment going with 4 bowler strategy, dropping Jaddu and playing Ash as specialist batsman. I know many of you will laugh at me for this, but Ashwin has a better technique and temperament than many of India's batsman. India can go with a 4 pronged pace attack and Ashwin can certainly bowl 30-60 overs if required.

 

[lion100lion]

Yes, Ganguly and his countless away wins in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh put him up there with the best of them.

Ganguly is an idiot. I just get irritated when I see him on TV boasting about his overseas record. i certainly value Kumble's and Dravid's captaincy in comparison to his.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

You covered your ass by putting Dravid's name in there, but I still felt it was necessary to call out Ganguly and his overrated captaincy.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

11 overseas wins, of which 6 in Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, I rest my case.

But the records do not cover everything. The Indian squad was in disarray when Ganguly took over and his side was a developing one in every sense of the word. On the other hand, with all due respect to MSD, he had Sehwag, Gambhir, Zaheer, Harbhajan and many others playing at the peak of their powers, of whom many were introduced by Ganguly. And while MSD's record might be better, Ganguly was the one who gave the squad belief that they could compete overseas, he was the one who brought the competitive streak.

 

[aditya123]

All those saying the captain is`nt to blame here are deluded. A lot of the rot stems from the attitude we take into test matches. We go into the defensive very early in a test match. Sitting back and waiting never works in test cricket. A lot of our batsmen are in that frame of mind as well. Kohli has no clue what he is doing here. Dhoni has`nt for a moment thought of playing Rahane ahead of Kohli for an inning or two till he gets back some form. We had to fight from the top but we never did. Rahane is in the best touch and yet always comes in at No.5. We would never have had a Kolkata 2001 turnaround had Ganguly not promoted him to No.3 ahead of an out of form Dravid. Even in 2004 in Australia he did something similar when Tendulkar was`nt in form and promoted himself ahead. You never see anything like this with Dhoni. We`ve basically stagnated with our ideas. I reiterate. This side has enough talent to win test series overseas. We`ve seen that time and again. Even something as simple as Ashwin coming in ahead of Jadeja is`nt tried out. Things are`nt working out. Why is this management so happy with status quo even when it does`nt work?

Dhoni has to take moral responsibility of this debacle and step down. Him being a WC winning captain and stuff does not hold any value in this debate. Those were ODI wins and nobody wants him stepping down as the ODI captain. We need a freshness of approach in test cricket.

 

[SaiSrini]

All those saying the captain is`nt to blame here are deluded. A lot of the rot stems from the attitude we take into test matches. We go into the defensive very early in a test match. Sitting back and waiting never works in test cricket. A lot of our batsmen are in that frame of mind as well. Kohli has no clue what he is doing here. Dhoni has`nt for a moment thought of playing Rahane ahead of Kohli for an inning or two till he gets back some form. We had to fight from the top but we never did. Rahane is in the best touch and yet always comes in at No.5. We would never have had a Kolkata 2001 turnaround had Ganguly not promoted him to No.3 ahead of an out of form Dravid. Even in 2004 in Australia he did something similar when Tendulkar was`nt in form and promoted himself ahead. You never see anything like this with Dhoni. We`ve basically stagnated with our ideas. I reiterate. This side has enough talent to win test series overseas. We`ve seen that time and again. Even something as simple as Ashwin coming in ahead of Jadeja is`nt tried out. Things are`nt working out. Why is this management so happy with status quo even when it does`nt work?

Dhoni has to take moral responsibility of this debacle and step down.

Thanks to stepping in, Adi.

 

[Epic]

But the records do not cover everything. The Indian squad was in disarray when Ganguly took over and his side was a developing one in every sense of the word. On the other hand, with all due respect to MSD, he had Sehwag, Gambhir, Zaheer, Harbhajan and many others playing at the peak of their powers, of whom many were introduced by Ganguly. And while MSD's record might be better, Ganguly was the one who gave the squad belief that they could compete overseas, he was the one who brought the competitive streak.

I accept that, but don't go around acting like Ganguly wrote the book on Test captaincy for all Indian captains to follow and with those same men Ganguly introduced, Dhoni took us to #1 and shame for his legacy's sake their bodies gave out just when it was time to go and win a series in England and Australia because let's not forget, the very team under Dhoni drew 1-1 in South Africa who were in all honesty the rightful #1 Test side in the world then, and now.

 

[aditya123]

What again are u fixating on the 8-0, two series about 8 months apart and in between the wins at home don't count? Everyone knows the 1 - 3 -15 run overseas, but what about the 11-2-2 run in the same period at home? You are saying sack Dhoni because he cannot win overseas, well which Indian captain has? There was a good run under Dravid, when India won in ENg and NZ, but thats the best it has EVER got for India overseas.

Thats the point, apart from not winning Overseas, which No Ind Captain has done with any great consistency ever anyway ... what wrong has Dhoni done. Still has one of the best home test records, and has won all kind an manner of ODI and T20 tournaments for India

Sack him for doing everything right, apart from having that one failing that thousands have had before him anyway.
.

Poker, you forget the fact how farcical our performances overseas have been under Dhoni. During the 2002-2010 period, we were`nt winning all the series overseas but we cannot forget the 1-1 draws in England, Australia and SA along with underrated wins in WI and NZ. We showed character then and when we lost, it was generally to better sides. This English side were themselves in the the doldrums and we needed to take the series by the scruff of its neck after being 1-0 up at Lords. Unfortunately, we decided to sit back and defend at Southampton and have never looked like troubling England ever since.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Is Moeen Laker's reincarnation or what?!

 

[grkrama]

brain fart from MSD