India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

[asprin]

Well played NZ. Worthy winners. As for India, well, as long as we don't get at least 2 quality bowlers who can put pressure on the opposition, we won't be a force to reckon with overseas.

Relying solely on the batting strength will work on the sub-continent pitches, but a weak bowling unit is always gonna hurt abroad. However, I do expect the test series to be a bit more competitive than the ODIs especially after the showing in SA tests.

I do hope though that Aaron and Shami are given an extended run. Both took a beating, but they are far better than Ishant any day.

 

[ferg512]

I think people need to stop referring to the ICC rankings as they are pretty irrelevant. We've beaten number 2, 3 and 4 in the past year and drew with Sri Lanka when we sent our B team over there. The Bangladesh loss was not good but its been the only series loss we've had in the last year and a half.

 

[used2bcool]

New Zealand have looked a complete side, and they thoroughly outplayed us today. I think the architects of the win were Southee and Mills, their first spells were brilliant and our batsmen had no answers for them. When NZ galloped to 70/2 in the first ten overs, the game was gone, because they essentially took the spinners out of the game.

I hope that that was the end of Stuart Binny's international career. The captain clearly has no faith in him to a job (any job), and since we don't plan on changing our captain any time soon, it's better to drop this loser and move on. Ironically they chose to drop Raina (which is deserved based on his lackluster batting performances) and then wound up missing him tremendously, especially with Dhoni struggling to fill the fifth bowler quota and trying poor Rayudu, who even the commentators were laughing at. He looked like the kind of trundler you get in Sunday tennis-ball league matches.

I know a lot has been said about our "pace" bowlers but I think the base problem is a simple lack of talent. You can have all the heart and will and intensity in the world but if you don't have talent, it won't get you anywhere.

 

[SaiSrini]

When is the next World Cup in the subcontinent? India should use all preceding World Cups as match practice. We can definitely win the next World Cup that is held in the subcontinent (bowling wise, we will still be as bad as ever when that next subcontinental WC comes, but in the subcontinent, batting might will trump over any bowling deficiencies as shown by us in the 2011 World Cup where we won despite mediocre to poor bowling performances, especially against England).

 

[Lebanna]

When is the next World Cup in the subcontinent? India should use all preceding World Cups as match practice. We can definitely win the next World Cup that is held in the subcontinent (bowling wise, we will still be as bad as ever when that next subcontinental WC comes, but in the subcontinent, batting might will trump over any bowling deficiencies as shown by us in the 2011 World Cup where we won despite mediocre to poor bowling performances, especially against England).

Ahem: I would just like to point out that you didn't quite win against England - it was a tie....

 

[SaiSrini]

Ahem: I would just like to point out that you didn't quite win against England - it was a tie....

The "'won" part was where we won the World Cup. The reference to England was with regards to our bowling performances.

 

[playkid12]

The most frustrating thing about India is that despite all of the losses, the team doesn't make the necessary changes. India can certainly be a daunting side if they remove Rohit Sharma and Ashwin, replacing them with Pujara and Ojha.

Rohit Sharma not only gets out, but he has a negative effect on his partner due to his reluctance in looking for singles.

Ojha is a far more effective spinner than Ashwin, especially abroad. You have to feel for the man that doesn't get selected to play for an astounding amount of matches despite his last performance being good enough to win the MoM award.

Ashwin can't take a wicket. No one cares if he can keep the runs down. If our fast bowlers can't take a wicket and our spinners can't take a wicket, we're going to lose.

As far as fast bowling is concerned, I'm lost on what to recommend. Shami is definitely the pick of the bowlers. Bhuvaneshwar is a below-par bowler who's even worse in the death overs, and Aaron hasn't impressed at all yet. Aaron also seems like a huge liability in the field.

I would not be surprised if India go back to Zaheer for the next series in Australia. The world cup is only a year away, so his age really doesn't matter at this point. Although Zaheer isn't the same bowler he used to be, he's still probably the best bowler in India.

I'd go with Zaheer, Shami, and Yadav. Yadav's place should be constantly competed for with the other bowlers on the team - Bhuvaneshwar, Ishwar Pandey, and Aaron.

 

[grkrama]

the problem with aaron is he keeps bowling one or 2 loose delivery every over thus negating all the pressure built,same was the case with yadav,just for a extra burst of speed these guys are erring too much in line & length.
Bk seems better despite not good in death bowling.
Dont know how effective pandey will be but zak can definitely get a look back for aus series with WC in mind ,i wouldnt mind even giving nehra a try with the current state of things.

Prob with ashwin is he is looking more like harbhajan did during the later phase of his carrier just trying to defend..it didnt help him and wont help ashwin either.
But this also due to lack of pressure built by pacers.so NZ were more content in playing jadu and ashwin except for loose balls.

And its high time pujara got a look in , i just dont understand dhoni's reluctance in dropping the sharma's for good.
Rahanae for all his talent seems to be putting pressure on himself and is not performing well its more of a mental one than his technical limitation, but i feel he is just one good knock away.

 

[used2bcool]

I would not be surprised if India go back to Zaheer for the next series in Australia. The world cup is only a year away, so his age really doesn't matter at this point. Although Zaheer isn't the same bowler he used to be, he's still probably the best bowler in India.

Man, I have a feeling you are right, and it's appalling that it has come to this. I guess with Zaheer you have a known set of positives and negatives. Given our pace bowling performances, I think I'll take the known devil over an endless carousel of Mohit Sharma, Ishant, Yadav, Aaron, Pandey, Vinay Kumar, etc., only to be disappointed each time.

I'm usually the last person to defend Ashwin, but I think he's bowled okay. I know he's not getting wickets, but it might be that we're expecting him to be something he hasn't ever been in ODI cricket. His strike rate of 43 since the start of 2013 is comparable to a career strike rate of 41. I don't think he's fallen off, he's always been at this level. Some of that isn't necessarily his fault either - with our pace bowlers lacking the ability to take wickets or stop the flow of runs, teams can pretty much afford play Ashwin off for 45-50 runs in his 10 overs (like yesterday). The two new balls and the new fielding restrictions aren't helping (any spinner), either. Ashwin's economy of 5.13 since 2013 (and 4.93 for his career) are also more than acceptable. He's an asset to the team with his batting. I don't think getting rid of him in ODIs is the option. Test matches, I'd pick Ojha ahead of him every time. But not ODIs.

 

[abhi_jacko]

I feel like Jadeja and Ashwin in the same team would make sense, if they were exceptional in either batting or bowling. We cant have two spinners in the lineup for just restricting the run flow. If Ashwin being the frontline spinner is unable to get wickets (2 wickets in last 6 games at economy of 5+) then we really have to look elsewhere for a more attacking option. Those wicket-less middle overs are hurting us really bad, and are one of the main reasons for our woeful death overs performance.

 

[SaiSrini]

Its so sad that India have not looked to build their fast bowling resources after the 2011 World Cup. I agree with most here who say that we might have to fallback on Zaheer Khan for the 2015 WC. And there is little to suggest that Zaheer might even be our answer to the fast bowling woes. He was ineffective in South Africa in the tests, which suggest that he might be well past his prime.

I feel like Jadeja and Ashwin in the same team would make sense, if they were exceptional in either batting or bowling. We cant have two spinners in the lineup for just restricting the run flow. If Ashwin being the frontline spinner is unable to get wickets (2 wickets in last 6 games at economy of 5+) then we really have to look elsewhere for a more attacking option. Those wicket-less middle overs are hurting us really bad, and are one of the main reasons for our woeful death overs performance.

Jaddu is hitting some batting form right now with two fifty plus knocks. If he can keep that run, we will not need Ashwin and we can trade him for a fast bowler or a second spinner.

 

[abhi_jacko]

Jaddu is hitting some batting form right now with two fifty plus knocks. If he can keep that run, we will not need Ashwin and we can trade him for a fast bowler or a second spinner.

I concur. Jadeja would be the right choice over Ashwin because their bowling skills are on the same level (atleast overseas), while Jadeja is definitely the better batsman

 

[War]

I think people need to stop referring to the ICC rankings as they are pretty irrelevant. We've beaten number 2, 3 and 4 in the past year and drew with Sri Lanka when we sent our B team over there. The Bangladesh loss was not good but its been the only series loss we've had in the last year and a half.

If the entire cricket world and the ICC stop paying credence to the ranking system - world cricket would be a better place.

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How is this Indian team regarded as one of the best in the world? They've just looked average, and statically only Kohli and Dhoni are world class.

Today their 3 and 4 were completely unproven international players, and Ashwin at 6, I mean were they taking the piss? Yes he played a blinder in Auckland, but he's a number 7 at best. Their pace bowling is extremely weak, which is shown by all of them other than Kumar having economy rates of at least 7.5!

My view on the matter is that since AUS failed to defend their world cup in 2011, India simply played the best tournament cricket in the WC 2011 & 2013 C Trophy - but their form in bilateral tournaments clearly show they are not the best ODI team in the world.

In fact unlike test cricket where S Africa are the clear # 1, i think no ODI team since 2011 have being consistent enough to be # 1. S Africa have the best ODI team/squad on paper still IMO & its surprising that they have translated their test dominance into the ODI format as yet.

 

[ferg512]

I would hope India doesn't go back to Zaheer Khan as that is taking steps backward imo, yeah you don't have great fast bowling depth, but Shami and Bhuvi are only 23 almost 24 so I think you need to give them time. They really could do with having Zaheer help coach them or something though, does anyone know who Indias bowling coach is?

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Aaron was pretty disappointing though, just consistently bowled short after Taylor kept smashing him for boundaries.

 

[Aalay]

does anyone know who Indias bowling coach is?

Joe "who the fearsome tweak is he" Dawes

Aaron was pretty disappointing though, just consistently bowled short after Taylor kept smashing him for boundaries.

Because he is faster than rest of our bowlers, that is the role he has been given. His role is to bowl back of the length deliveries at high pace and try to force the batsman to play those hook and pull shots and hoping one of them will turn out to be a top edge. I don't know but I am getting a feeling that we will see Ishant Sharma come back in Aaron's place. Aaron needs this kind of experience to be ready for the WC.

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Another problem as I have been saying after the 2nd ODI is that we don't take any wickets in middle overs. This is what allows the opposition to score 300 every time against us. In champion trophy 2013, Jadeja played this role where he would run through the batting line-up with a bit of help from Ashwin. So even though if opposition has got off to a flier like WI did against us in the champions trophy, we still have chance to come back in the game because of those middle over wickets. However, since than I haven't seen India do that. The reason is both Ashwin and Jadeja have failed to pick up wickets in the middle overs. Throughout this series, it has been the same story that we get a couple of early wickets and than Williamson and Taylor would stay there till 40 overs because nobody can get them out in the middle overs. It is surprising to me how Dhoni keeps defending both Ashwin and Jadeja even when they are not performing. Ya ok they have bowled couple of economical spells but wickets is the way to go rather than stopping runs.

The only positive from this series is Jadeja's batting. Bowling is going from bad to worse to horrible.