India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

i love indian team very much and I think they are the best.

They're not the best. Not even close. Just proven that over one glorious, historical Summer... more evidence coming Friday. Could 2-0 follow 4-0? Most likely.
 
No one of Shami and Zaheer should be dropped. I feel Ishant needs to be thrown out but it seems he has booked his place almost for a year with those 9 wickets.:p Well, I think Jadeja is no longer test player. He has scored 3 triple centuries at 8th place in domestic matches, so? Ashwin has done pretty well with his bat against International teams in India and in New Zealand (recently) and Australia as well. I'm still wondering why the hell world's best test all-rounder was dropped in first test-match.:eek: Ashwin could play very well and sensible with bat yesterday. The batting department should not be changed. All of them can do better in next match. So I don't think there's need to drop any of them.
Finally, would love to see a change - Ashwin in Jaddu out.
 
Facts are: India were supposed to have a full tour of NZ including 3 T20's 5 ODI's and 4 Tests. Instead, they shortened it because they wanted more money elsewhere... If you think the BCCI isn't about making money and not about improving the sport, you're kidding yourself.

Good news, as you point out, that the better side with less population, less money and less influence in world cricket won the match and is crushing the cashed up show ponies you put on the field. Wonderful day for the sport...

says someone who one post prior to this noted that NZ sent a depleted team to another country with similar funding issues because it doesn't care.

and incidently similarly came back from that tour with a draw in tests and schooling in the ODIs.

very difficult for me to weep tears for NZ over the BCCI/ECB/CA take over. they've been completely complicit lap dogs and as you've pointed out, do the same things when given the chance.
 
I decided to have a look at the "depleted team" sent to Bangladesh, turns out it wasn't depleted after all...

Test squad: Brendon McCullum, Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Doug Bracewell, Dean Brownlie, Peter Fulton, Mark Gillespie, Tom Latham, Bruce Martin, Hamish Rutherford, Ish Sodhi, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner, BJ Watling Kane Williamson

ODI squad: Brendon McCullum, Corey Anderson, Anton Devcich, Grant Elliott, Tom Latham, Mitchell McClenaghan, Nathan McCullum, Kyle Mills, Adam Milne, Colin Munro, James Neesham, Luke Ronchi, Hamish Rutherford, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Kane Williamson (withdrawn after 1st ODI)

Interesting test match this. India obviously started off favorites despite their 3-0 drubbing in the ODIs but they definitely had the better team on paper as compared to the 'second tier' team. That said, the stats show that both teams have been scratchy. India had not won a single series overseas against a top test team in last 7 years! The last series they won was under Rahul Dravid by 1-0 in 2007. Even their last series win was against West Indies in 2011 which they won by not so handsome 1-0 margin. That was some 958 days back and it is not that they doing great at home of late either. The record in the last 13 tests for India is: LLDLLLLLLLLDD. That is a shameful record to say the least who is one of the top ranked test nation. Yes, I know the rankings are not trustworthy but still that is too bad a record for a top nation. On the other hand, NZ have done extraordinarily well losing just 1 series in the recent past that against Bangladesh and this team does look to have hunger to win unlike the teams of 2 years back or so. For the record, this was NZ first win against India in 12 long years!

I can point out a number of factors responsible for India's defeat.

1. That batsmen should have shown a bit more resistance; they seemed like they wanted to finish the game in a jiffy.

2. Dhoni's captaincy has never been great, particularly in the test matches outside India but in this test match, the point when India had NZ well under control in the 2nd innings and that is when the Mahendra Singh's ham-fisted way of captaincy was seen. Why in the world would you hand over the ball to a chap like Rohit Sharma when you could have finished things off and not the let the other team's lead cross the psychological barrier of 400 runs?

It is not that Dhoni's batting form is good either. Lets take a look at the records.

Last 10 Test Innings:

Player | Runs | 50s | 100s Virender Sehwag |280|0|1
Gautam Gambhir |312|2|0
Mahendra Singh Dhoni |218|0|0

And all this when I can think of at least 3 gloveman good enough to represent India. As far is his captaincy is concerned, I think it has taken a huge dip, particularly overseas. It is frustrating to see a skipper have long off and long on in place in the first session of play of a test match. Such defensive captaincy will do no good. I know the bowlers are not that good but you got to be attacking as I captain. I thought Anil Kumble made a good attacking skipper but shame he had not many years of cricket left by the time the captaincy chance came his way. Coming back to Dhoni, if anyone wants to make a shout that he is 4th on the list of most wins as skipper in international matches with 135 games then let me inform you that he is 3rd on the most matches lost list too with 90 matches. So, my question is why are fingers not raised against Dhoni when you have dropped players with better record than him, and when you have players who can take his place in the team. Is it that India still think of Dhoni as their midas touch man or are they not courageous enough to appoint another skipper whilst continuing with Dhoni in the team just to get the alarm bells ringing for him? Or is it because of his great friend's influence in the board? If you know what I mean.


I plan on replying to this post in detail with stats and what not when I get the time, but who exactly do you consider to be "top teams"?
 
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very difficult for me to weep tears for NZ over the BCCI/ECB/CA take over. they've been completely complicit lap dogs and as you've pointed out, do the same things when given the chance.

Haha. You cannot be serious.

I'm clearly being facetious about Bangladesh, because... Bangladesh.
 
What I don't understand is dropping him from ODIs but retaining him for tests. In ODIs, he only has to bowl 10 overs. As a result, I'm sure he can bowl at a quicker pace in ODIs than tests, since he has to bowl in 5 over spells.

Zaheer has always been a bigger asset to India in ODIs rather than tests. He's a smart bowler that can get into a batsman's head. In the earlier overs, he tends to use outswingers followed by one that comes into the batsman to trap him for an LBW. His ability to move the ball both ways is a huge asset. In the death overs, he has the disguised slower ball that batsmen don't pick up when they're trying to accelerate.

I do agree with this sentiment. I think Zaheer gives us a decent chance at picking early wickets too, and he is probably a better death bowler than what we have now, though that's not saying a whole lot. I think sometimes the selectors and/or Dhoni get caught up in the idea of having a younger ODI team - since that team is likely to be more athletic. We forget that our young bowlers (especially Aaron and Yadav) are a bigger liability in the field than Zaheer.

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I'm still wondering why the hell world's best test all-rounder was dropped in first test-match.:eek: Ashwin could play very well and sensible with bat yesterday...
Finally, would love to see a change - Ashwin in Jaddu out.

If Ashwin is the world's best test allrounder, then I'm the emperor of China*.
*Hint: I am not the emperor of China.

I think we're forgetting that Ashwin's primary job is to take wickets, something he hasn't done in Tests outside of India. Nine wickets in seven innings is not a flattering result, especially considering that Jadeja has more wickets in overseas Tests while bowling in three fewer innings (I know, I know, REALLY small sample size). Plus, Jadeja's not a mug with the bat, and his fielding (which actually creates wickets) is so far above Ashwin's (or really anyone else in the Indian test side), it's not even funny.
 
If Ashwin is the world's best test allrounder, then I'm the emperor of China*.
*Hint: I am not the emperor of China.

Lol, I was talking about test rankings there and I don't see you as a china emperor.:p

I think we're forgetting that Ashwin's primary job is to take wickets, something he hasn't done in Tests outside of India. Nine wickets in seven innings is not a flattering result, especially considering that Jadeja has more wickets in overseas Tests while bowling in three fewer innings (I know, I know, REALLY small sample size). Plus, Jadeja's not a mug with the bat, and his fielding (which actually creates wickets) is so far above Ashwin's (or really anyone else in the Indian test side), it's not even funny.

Yes yes agree there. Ashwin's primary job is to pick wickets and he failed on oversea tracks. But what is Jadeja doing there? And actually Ashwin was failed in England in his very first chance and in Australia where there are completely pace-friendly pitches where spinners are generally useless. In SA he played in a single test match. So for this tour Jdeja and Ashwin makes no difference with each other for bowling issues. About batting then Ashwin is well batsman than Jadeja in FC/Test cricket. We need a bit helpful tail, so my suggestion is meaningful (as far as I could prove).
 
Lol, I was talking about test rankings there and I don't see you as a china emperor.:p

:D

ChaitS said:
Yes yes agree there. Ashwin's primary job is to pick wickets and he failed on oversea tracks. But what is Jadeja doing there? And actually Ashwin was failed in England in his very first chance and in Australia where there are completely pace-friendly pitches where spinners are generally useless. In SA he played in a single test match. So for this tour Jdeja and Ashwin makes no difference with each other for bowling issues. About batting then Ashwin is well batsman than Jadeja in FC/Test cricket. We need a bit helpful tail, so my suggestion is meaningful (as far as I could prove).

Agree that Ashwin had to bowl in conditions unsuitable for his bowling and at a time when the team has generally failed, which cannot be helpful. My point is, I think Jadeja as a whole package just offers more at this point. Plus he has taken a few wickets in the limited overseas chances he has got (again, *really small* sample). As an Indian fan, I want nothing more than Ashwin to find his form and make the necessary adjustment to his game to succeed outside of India. Your idea that our tail is really long (especially with Zaheer's diminishing batting ability) is totally spot on. I'm sorry if I came off as trying to be dismissive of your opinion.

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Haha. You cannot be serious.
You know that's not really a counter-argument.

And New Zealand haven't really put up much of a resistance to the new proposals.
 
Finally, would love to see a change - Ashwin in Jaddu out.

Ashwin is an awful bowler when taken outside of the subcontinent conditions. He has failed woefully in SA (both Tests and ODIs) and in the NZ ODIs. He can't bag wickets. He's also an atrocious fielder. Jadeja takes wickets, can bat, and can field. His runout and amazing fielding catches really assisted India in the last game. Before Ashwin gets a chance, Ojha needs to be tried. The poor guy's last game involved a Man of the Match performance, and he hasn't played since. But I have no problems in retaining Jadeja.

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On the ODI series, what was the "WASP" thing?

A useless bit of information that tries to predict who is on top at the moment by giving a percentage.
 
Jadeja besides taking 2 wickets, took 5 catches and effected a brilliant run out. Was stranded at one end in the first innings - 30 n.o. and in the second innings was under clear instructions to counter attack

So clearly there isn't enough proof for him to be replaced by Ashwin who has been absolutely ineffective in unhelpful conditions. There is no proof of Ashwin being a better batsman or bowler than Jadeja in these conditions. I think MSD will stick with the same team. At most, Zaheer might have to sit out for Umesh or Varun
 
Jadeja besides taking 2 wickets, took 5 catches and effected a brilliant run out. Was stranded at one end in the first innings - 30 n.o. and in the second innings was under clear instructions to counter attack

So clearly there isn't enough proof for him to be replaced by Ashwin who has been absolutely ineffective in unhelpful conditions. There is no proof of Ashwin being a better batsman or bowler than Jadeja in these conditions. I think MSD will stick with the same team. At most, Zaheer might have to sit out for Umesh or Varun

Varun Aaron is not part of the test team and has gone back home. Its Ishwar Pandey, Bhuvaneshwar Kumar and Yadav who were the fast bowlers in the bench for the last test
 
Oh I see .. thanks for the info. I guess it should be Umesh Yadav then if it all Zaheer has to be replaced. He was the only bowler who did 'fairly' well on the overseas tours last year
 

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