South Africa in England

[MUFC1987]

The thing with Bell is that when he plays well he looks good and everyone jumps up and says how great he is. For me though, he's never going to be able to change a game with an innings (which he has never done) I mean look at all the times he's got centuries, there has always been at least one other person getting a ton in the same innings. This says to me that he can score when conditions suit, but struggles when his back is against the wall and the team needs an innings from him (a la Collingwood yesterday) this is why I don't really rate Ian Bell.

 

[evertonfan]

You can't put it fairer than that really. Sadly I don't see this current crop of selectors taking the same stand. They'll probably think more along the lines of, "But 199 is way better than 135; let's pick Bell over Collingwood again!"

 

[Will_NA]

The question is whether he has the temperment to avoid playing stupid shots. Mckenzie has given England a master-class in how to bat. Leave everything outside off-stump unless full and wide or short and wide. Otherwise, wait until the bowler over-compensates and strays onto your pads then clip them away for 4.

He's not as pretty to watch as Bell but Collingwood showed, if our batsmen showe half the guts McKensie has, this series would be much closer.

 

[irottev]

Collingwood is world class.

Cheers for the laughs.

Well done SA. I felt SA had the better side and they proved that. They have a lot better balance with a very strong top 6 and a good set of bowlers. Was a good game of cricket, but the umpiring was terrible. The first game was bad too from memory. Some went both ways. though.

Te last game is a dead rubber really, though you want to win every game, especially tests so perhaps England should make a few changes. Sidebottom may need resting. I'd like to think Vaughan could be dropped and Strauss could captain, but I doubt they'd do that.

The difference between the sides is that EVERY South African player has contributed so far this series. From the top 6 everyone has passed 50 and of the bowlers, everyone's been sharing the wickets around. Even Nel came into the side and bowled well right away. They're playing well as a team. England are currently relying on individuals to perform and players such as Vaughan and Ambrose aren't contributing enough. All of England's bowlers have been below par. None of them have stepped up and been going at 20 averages. Sidebottom and Flintoff are the best of them with 32ish averages.

If Steyn is back for South Africa, i'd take out Ntini. He bowls too short for English conditions. He just doesn't look dangerous. Nel bowled a lot straighter and more accurate. Much less free four balls.

 

[evertonfan]

Hit the nail on the head there irrotev. England's downfall has ultimately been the fact that we've been carrying a few players. Oh well, let's hope the ODI side can do better. That'll have a lot mroe revitalised players who are in good county form such as Shah, Bopara and the like.

On another note i'd like to see Paul Horton given a go. maybe not in the ODI series because he's more of a white clothing player, but he should definitely tour the West Indies. He could definitely replace Strauss to open the batting with Cook.

 

[Will_NA]

Cheers for the laughs.

Would you like to tell me why he isn't? Does he not perform against the best? Does he not get high scores. Rather than ridicule my post, actually make an argument.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

The difference between the sides is that EVERY South African player has contributed so far this series. From the top 6 everyone has passed 50 and of the bowlers, everyone's been sharing the wickets around. Even Nel came into the side and bowled well right away. They're playing well as a team. England are currently relying on individuals to perform.

That is what is called hitting the nail on the head I fancy!

 

[irottev]

Everyone has a different perception of what World Class is, so if that's your opinion than good for you. He's in a different class to batsman such as Pietersen, Smith, Ponting etc though in my opinion which is the level i'd call World Class.

 

[Will_NA]

Obviously his batting isn't up to their standard and I probably shouldn't have alluded to that but his all round capabilities make him World Class is my opinion.

Drop Bell, bring in Shah. Also, drop Sidebottom. He's obviously unfit and bring in Jones.

 

[irottev]

He's a World Class fielder. I won't argue about that one.

 

[Sureshot]

England with a rubbish team drew with India in India in 2005. Results havent been as good as the 2003-05 period, but England have not played that bad to be honest. Last year's test series defeat to India was also very unlucky.

End of the day, England are losing to the second best team in the world, with probably the best fast bowling attack, and one that can really challenge Australia in Australia.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. We've been poor, but this South African team has been exceptional. Batting wise they haven't put a foot wrong. Everyone making vital contributions at one point or another. The strength of the captain was very good today.

England have some decisions to make. I don't think we can keep carrying Vaughan. Colly will play on, and rightly so, he fought tooth and nail for his career. Confidence is seething through his veins again. Of course Vaughan won't be dropped though. We can improve by making Strauss captain and having Shah at 3. We'd be a stronger unit. I was mystified as to the defensive fields he was setting. What is the point in a defensive field when the opposition has 4 sessions to score 100 runs? At least give yourself a chance.

I think Sidebottom should be rested for the Oval, he still isn't 100% fit imo. The Oval will take spin, maybe, as it is a dead rubber, it is time to look at a spinner? Give Rashid an introduction to test cricket. The Oval will spin.

It was a much better performance in this match by England. Though Anderson wasn't at his best, Sidebottom lacked penetration second time around. The bowling attack looks stronger though. Ambrose is a tough cookie, fights, which is an excellent quality. Needs to work on leg side keeping and on his batting. I think he would excel with a spell back at Warwicks. Which he should get in the ODIs, as I can't see him playing in those.

Well done to South Africa. Best side won. Watch out Australia.

 

[evertonfan]

I reckon Harmy will play at the Oval to be honest. Good pitch for him to come back on that. I'd still rather we went with Jones though.

 

[Sureshot]

My feelings on Harmison are well known. He was in the squad though so he is clearly in the selectors minds.

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RE: This thread.

I am disappointed with some of the behaviour of individuals. Looking for arguments is childish and immature. I see that Manee has dealt with some posts and I hope this doesn't continue any more. It's pathetic. Threads are so much better when there is a debate about two differing opinions. Unlike this one where there has been deliberate mis-interpretations and the aforementioned trolling.

Keep it clean, lads.

 

[Will_NA]

England have some decisions to make. I don't think we can keep carrying Vaughan. Colly will play on, and rightly so, he fought tooth and nail for his career. Confidence is seething through his veins again. Of course Vaughan won't be dropped though. We can improve by making Strauss captain and having Shah at 3. We'd be a stronger unit. I was mystified as to the defensive fields he was setting. What is the point in a defensive field when the opposition has 4 sessions to score 100 runs? At least give yourself a chance.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. I've never understood why captains set defensive fields when they need wickets. South Africa were in no rush. They had a day in hand but Vaughan seemed intent on saving runs. Close in fielders or catchers create pressure. Instead, Vaughan afforded South Africa an atmoshpere in which they felt comfortable and could take easy singles. Players like Strauss and Pietersen have learnt enough from Vaughan to take over the reins while still contributing with the bat. It's all well and good admitting you're not scoring and proising to rectify it this way and that way but, unless Vaughan scores, he's a liability.

I won't be too harsh on Vaughan though since all captains have done it. Vaughan has proved himself to be a very good captain but as we've said all series, he's in the team for his captaincy alone and we can't have that. Smith led from the front. Vaughan's leading from the dressing room.

England batsman need to learn how to knuckle down.

 

[evertonfan]

Just been thinking to myself and i've discovered that yesterday's defeat was Flintoff's eighth consecutive loss in the Test team. Ouch. He hasn't won since he hit the winning runs against Sri Lanka at Edgbaston in 2006.