The Greatest ODI Batsman: Tendulkar vs Richards

[TumTum]

Mate those plans have been going on since the beginning of cricket, and is essentially what cricket is all about.

Technology has nothing to do with it, it's called brains.

 

[shravi]

Mate those plans have been going on since the beginning of cricket, and is essentially what cricket is all about.

Technology has nothing to do with it, it's called brains.

Yeah, I'm sure Dale Steyn could have made a plan for Murali Vijay, a batsman South Africa have never bowled to before :sarcasm. There are two types of plans- plans which are made on the spot on the field, and plans which you meticulously devise off the field. If you don't understand something as simple as that, I don't know why 3 people are bothering trying to make you understand.

 

[TumTum]

Are you stupid enough to believe Steyn?

Ever heard of mental intimidation?

A massive to all of you.

 

[shravi]

That is just one example. I'm sure there have been countless others in the last few years. Anyways, I'm done. If anyone wants to take this up, be my guest. I should warn you though- trying to convince someone so irrational and illogical gets a little tiring after a while. Maybe you should use the word 'average'. It doesn't even have to make sense. Just stick it in there somewhere. He doesn't seem to respond to much else.

 

[ballers101]

Even if you do make a plan against batsmen (which has been widely used since cricket was first played), there is no guarantee that you will bowl to that plan.

As I said before, humans are not robots, you cannot execute a plan to perfection. And a bowler will always "try" new things anyway, which the batsmen pick off.

"Technology" is just a lame excuse.

TumTum your being entirely stupid right now, what your basically telling me is that when coaches spend about 20 hours a week on game tapes, its for nothing. Which is basically implying that you understand more about coaching then coaches who have had proper training through university and studies and what not.

This isn't even a matter of cricket anymore its a matter of anything in general. In Baseball, pitchers watch tons and tons of hours of game tapes so that they study the batters weaknesses. This is PROVEN TO WORK, when they say that athletes have to have more than just Talent and skill they mean it. Another part of the athlete is his smarts, how well he knows his opponents not every single player can improvise on his feet that well they must have a gameplan for every single opponent. Now it may not work to perfection yes but it definitely impacts the game a lot. If you spent an hour watching a good batsmen bat and you look carefully and maybe take some notes along the way. I am sure you will find flaws, like you said we are humans not robots so obviously by doing this bowlers find weaknesses of the batsmen. For example, if you notice a batsmen has a trouble after 10 overs to play the hook shot and you bowl one in that area the batsmen may not get out but the batsmen may have hit an edge for a four. This causes a chance for a wicket along with some pressure on the batsmen....this only happens because of technology.

This is how the game works today, I don't know what world you live in but in nearly every single sport you must know your opponent. What do you think coaches do then, sit around and let the players figure each other out during the game.....of course not. They spend hours on game tapes trying to get these bowlers to understand how to get every single batsmen on the team out. So without technology there is no doubt in my mind that bowlers would have a harder time with bowling.

 

[TumTum]

TumTum your being entirely stupid right now, what your basically telling me is that when coaches spend about 20 hours a week on game tapes, its for nothing. Which is basically implying that you understand more about coaching then coaches who have had proper training through university and studies and what not.

This isn't even a matter of cricket anymore its a matter of anything in general. In Baseball, pitchers watch tons and tons of hours of game tapes so that they study the batters weaknesses. This is PROVEN TO WORK, when they say that athletes have to have more than just Talent and skill they mean it. Another part of the athlete is his smarts, how well he knows his opponents not every single player can improvise on his feet that well they must have a gameplan for every single opponent. Now it may not work to perfection yes but it definitely impacts the game a lot. If you spent an hour watching a good batsmen bat and you look carefully and maybe take some notes along the way. I am sure you will find flaws, like you said we are humans not robots so obviously by doing this bowlers find weaknesses of the batsmen. For example, if you notice a batsmen has a trouble after 10 overs to play the hook shot and you bowl one in that area the batsmen may not get out but the batsmen may have hit an edge for a four. This causes a chance for a wicket along with some pressure on the batsmen....this only happens because of technology.

This is how the game works today, I don't know what world you live in but in nearly every single sport you must know your opponent. What do you think coaches do then, sit around and let the players figure each other out during the game.....of course not. They spend hours on game tapes trying to get these bowlers to understand how to get every single batsmen on the team out. So without technology there is no doubt in my mind that bowlers would have a harder time with bowling.

So now you are also going to justify the reason for batsmen having made more runs this decade, because batsmen have studied countless hours of hawk-eye and pitch-maps of the bowlers they are going to face?

I am no longer going to participate in this discussion with complete idiots such as yourselves.

 

[sifter132]

Well to be fair, while technology is used more and more by analysts, there are plenty of guys in world cricket who believe that coaching is not necessary and you should be able to think for yourself on the field eg. Ian Chappell and Shane Warne.

I'd be fascinated to know how precise the planning usually is and how much research is needed to come up with it. I think bowlers have general plans eg. bowl short to Phil Hughes, but I don't think they'd have a whole over mapped out. You adapt on the run as good cricketers should do.

 

[TumTum]

Well to be fair, while technology is used more and more by analysts, there are plenty of guys in world cricket who believe that coaching is not necessary and you should be able to think for yourself on the field eg. Ian Chappell and Shane Warne.

I'd be fascinated to know how precise the planning usually is and how much research is needed to come up with it. I think bowlers have general plans eg. bowl short to Phil Hughes, but I don't think they'd have a whole over mapped out. You adapt on the run as good cricketers should do.

Exactly my point. You don't need technology to figure out that you need to bowl short at Hughes, or full at KP do you? (unless you are either Shravi or ballers)

 

[shravi]

Exactly my point. You don't need technology to figure out that you need to bowl short at Hughes, or full at KP do you? (unless you are either Shravi or ballers)

They are two isolated examples, much like the one of Murali Vijay. Technology doesn't work in any and every given situation, however in theory, it does help. Maybe you need to learn the difference between theory and practice.

I thought my last comment was my last comment, obviously not.

During the last six years Hawk-Eye has developed strong relationships with the coaching staff of all the major cricket nations, with the likes of England, Australia, South Africa, and India all using Hawk-Eye data.

The pure tracking system is combined with a data repository and archiving capabilities so that it is possible to extract and analyze trends and statistics about individual players, games or ball to ball comparisons etc.

"All the statistical data and analysis of the players and game will be supported by graphics and visuals for better understanding and improving the performance."

Source

The end of the article is particularly insightful and informative as it shows specific examples of the different softwares/services used by teams/boards/players/academies.

I'll try to say this one last time. Technology does have an influence on the game. It can:

a) Remove technical deficiencies in a batsman's technique or make them less evident
b) Allow a batsman or batsmen to prepare better against a certain bowler, bowlers or tactics.
c) Allow a bowler or a team to make a plan for a certain batsman.

However, this physical preparation is just one aspect of it. It does not take into consideration the mental preparation involved. It takes not only ability and physical preparation to pull of these plans, but mental fortitude. In addition, how well a player or players pull off these plans is determined by their ability and/or form. The extent to which these plans succeed or if they succeed at all is dependent on the batsman's form and/or ability. However, it is also influenced by weather conditions, pitch type, ground size, etc. The degree to which a side plans, how successful these plans are and all the aforementioned factors may be evened out by the emergence of flatter pitches, more rules in favor of batsmen, shorter boundaries and an overall decrease in the quality of bowlers.

Therefore, it is difficult to determine whether in fact this has made it more difficult for Sachin, or easier, as there are so many other factors involved. I'll say it again. Technology does have an impact; it just difficult to determine how large this impact is or will be and in whose favor it is in.

 

[TumTum]

LMAO, like you said "in theory"

Thanks for finally giving up your case.

 

[shravi]

LMAO, like you said "in theory"

Thanks for finally giving up your case.

Even making plans on the run only always works in theory, not necessarily in reality...

 

[TumTum]

Even making plans on the run only always works in theory, not necessarily in reality...

Yes you are right about that too.

 

[drainpipe32]

FYI technology works in favour of the batsmen too. They spend just as much time as bowlers looking at footage, mostly of bowlers various actions, deviations, variations, etc and bowling plans.

 

[shravi]

FYI technology works in favour of the batsmen too. They spend just as much time as bowlers looking at footage, mostly of bowlers various actions, deviations, variations, etc and bowling plans.

Already mentioned. We are simply debating whether or not it has an impact on the game and it most certainly does. The uncertainty arises when debating whose favor it is in.

 

[TumTum]

Already mentioned. We are simply debating whether or not it has an impact on the game and it most certainly does. The uncertainty arises when debating whose favor it is in.

Still technology has no impact on the game, but if we assume it does, then I agree with you on that. Hence you cannot put that "Technology" argument in favor of Sachin. That was my base argument all along.