Australia Tour Of India 2012/13

[Samuels]

Murali Vijay is there only because he plays for CSK. He has had an awful Ranji season and I see no reason why he is in there. I would rather draft in a player like Manoj Tiway, though he is a middle order bat, in the side or even young Jiwanjot Singh who has had a magnificent domestic season. Sad to see Jaffer out only because of his age. Its a logical decision no doubt. I wish he was younger. What a gem of a player he is!

 

[angryangy]

I agree Aalay, Australia have a better chance of having two seamers bowl like Pattinson. From what I've seen of Johnson this season, he would have played except that Australia are a bit spoilt for choice. Pattinson's return was welcomed and he rightly deserved a shot. It's easy to say in hindsight about Starc, but he been a popular player and has swung the white ball with supreme contempt. Australia knows what Starc offers and the hope would have been to see a spell of scything reverse, if not just one really unstoppable inswinger to the right handed openers. His other traits however leave him not quite as polished as Pattinson.

In that, I also look back to the Perth Test. Starc got six wickets, but so many batsmen just holed out to deep square leg. It was Johnson who could still get the ball to spit when the pitch was playing nicely. In finger breaking form, I think Johnson is an exciting proposition even on a slower wicket. As Henriques said in the press conference, as a seamer you can't just roll the arm over.

I think a lot of Lyon's battles are with confidence. For much of the game, the field permitted easy singles. Maybe it's logical to fear batsmen like Tendulkar, but I often think competition is about fancying long odds. "You miss I hit" is what mathematicians call a zero sum game.

That last stanza of the game said a lot for tight fields. Sehwag fiddled at a fairly harmless ball because the one before made him think. The last run could literally have been a wicket. I actually think the ball Vijay hit for six was a pretty nice flighted delivery, it's just credit to the batsman for executing his shot well. Of Sehwag, Pujara and Tendulkar, it was the latter who was the only one that acted as if it nothing mattered, which is probably great to see for Indian fans. That's the sort of serenity you want in any batsman, especially chasing 50.

I'd probably give Doherty a bit more credit than most Australians. I think some of the things he can do are what you want. But that said I'm way more hesitant about playing two spinners than, it would seem, most Australians. I find the dichotomy amazing, that suddenly these sorts of players must be picked, when nobody harbours the opinion that their bowling is really that good.

 

[War]

Chennai has been renovated probably in the last 2-3 years (most probably after that last test vs England where we chased 387). I somehow feel that the ground looks a lot better now with the new stands (from the spectator point of view). And for visiting teams, it should be a lot better as Chennai is a furnace (as you say) during summer and the wind blowing between the stands will help.

Ye i guess so.

Of Swann and Panesar, what is really underrated is how bad Broad and Bresnan were, compared with Anderson and Finn. I mean 16 wickets @ 30 versus nothing at 4 rpo. England's seam warranted change a lot more than has Australia's thus far.

Exactly.

Now the turning point in the England series was Monty Panesar. Australia have Doherty but going by some of the post in this thread about him, I think he is even worse then Lyon? Which does not help. Australia can also add Maxwell or Smith but the problem is that neither of them are good enough in bowling. Smith can add good strength in batting because I think he has right technique for these pitches but as I said, his legbreaks are not that good. I am surprised that nobody pointed out this before but I think Johnson should be in there in place of Starc. Johnson has played here before and he is a decent bowler in these conditions. Pattinson was a big positive for Australia.

So basically they have to bring someone like Doherty and Johnson so they can at least support Lyon from the other end.

To avoid repeating myself on this specific point my friend:

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/2460798-post386.html

 

[sifter132]

Will Glenn Maxwell get a game in 2nd test? What's your view???

I can't see it. India weren't overly troubled by Lyon, and Maxwell is a very similar bowler - just with MORE loose stuff. He could buy a couple of cheap wickets, but that should never be your plan A. And Henriques showed some class with the bat, so Maxwell definitely wouldn't take his spot.

Well done Moses. Not pretty but played with a short back-lift and soft hands, probably the sort of player who will enjoy the tougher conditions without the expectations on him.

I thought his 1st innings was nice, but a bit overrated as the field was well spread to deal with Clarke's scoring, and Moises got a lot of easy runs as a result. But the 2nd innings, Moises was fantastic, much props to him.

I'd probably give Doherty a bit more credit than most Australians. I think some of the things he can do are what you want. But that said I'm way more hesitant about playing two spinners than, it would seem, most Australians. I find the dichotomy amazing, that suddenly these sorts of players must be picked, when nobody harbours the opinion that their bowling is really that good.

Haha. Quite right. And I'm probably going to do that myself I'd say Doherty in for Starc, not because I rate Doherty at all, but because Clarke would certainly use Doherty more than he bowled himself, and that might be the key. Having a guy who spins it the other way just makes the batsmen change their methods a bit, hit to different areas. eg. I thought Clarke should have bowled to Dhoni a LOT more than he did because Lyon was getting lined up.

Just on Lyon, I know there are many disappointed Aussie fans. I'm a bit disappointed too, he just couldn't find the right spot and seemed too short too often. Then he'd overpitch with a handful of full tosses. Was a bit Krejza-like in that he couldn't keep a batsman on strike to work on him. Lyon bowled ONE MAIDEN in his 47 overs. That's is not good enough, nowhere near. They have to work out a way to rack up some dot balls, and stop batsmen working him so easily.

But in Lyon's partial defence, Dhoni was THE difference in this game as War pointed out. Take out the 104 runs from 85 balls that Dhoni spanked from his bowling, and Lyon's figures are 3/111 off 32.5 overs. Give him 2 LBWs that he deserved: against Harbhajan padding up 2nd ball, and another versus Tendulkar where he hid his bat behind his pad and he might have got around 4/100 off 30. Or you can look at it another way, Lyon's figures when Dhoni walked out were 1/56 off 15.1 overs, after Dhoni left they were 3/200 off 43 overs ie. 2/144 off 27.5 overs while Dhoni was at the crease. Bottom line is...if Lyon can learn to bowl to Dhoni, or Australia can find someone else who can take out Dhoni instead, then the Lyon problem is partially solved.

 

[SaiSrini]

Seriously, loving all the build up that people here have been giving out to Dhoni's innings. Not sure if this is a one off thing from Dhoni or if this will continue. I wish though that it continues.

 

[puddleduck]

Dhoni has been one of your few quality players in the last year or two. Even when the supposed high quality batting lineup has failed in conditions that allow pace bowlers to bowl more than one length, he still got stuck in and tried to give some semblance of respect to the score.

His captaincy can be a bit bizarre at times, but then it's hard to set fields when your bowling attack has been consistently blunt. Not like edges have flown through vacant areas he's left empty. He's had a very mediocre Indian team to work with, and his runs have been crucial in stopping them from being utterly embarrassed at times in the last few years.

Again, this victory was only even possible because he took them from an average total to a winning total almost single handedly. Doesn't stop the knee jerk reactions of the Indian fans/press from calling for his head whenever he gets out for 30 odd with India 200/7 or sticks his fielders in defensive positions with the opponents barely giving a chance.

 

[War]

Seriously, loving all the build up that people here have been giving out to Dhoni's innings. Not sure if this is a one off thing from Dhoni or if this will continue. I wish though that it continues.

I think this innings IMO finally makes him sure spot in an Indian All-time test XI.

I don't rate his captaincy, but even while India were being whitewashed in AUS & ENG & lost at home in India, he has played some fighting knocks. Plus his keeping while it might not be as spectacular as Farook Engineer or Syed Kirmani - it was solid enough to handle Kumbe/Harbhajan for a good few years.

Gavaskar
Mankad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Hazare
Viswanath
Dhoni
Kapil Dev
Khan
Prasanna
Gupte

 

[SaiSrini]

I think this innings IMO finally makes him sure spot in an Indian All-time test XI.

I don't rate his captaincy, but even while India were being whitewashed in AUS & ENG & lost at home in India, he has played some fighting knocks. Plus his keeping while it might not be as spectacular as Farook Engineer or Syed Kirmani - it was solid enough to handle Kumbe/Harbhajan for a good few years.

Gavaskar
Mankad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Hazare
Viswanath
Dhoni
Kapil Dev
Khan
Prasanna
Gupte

Dhoni in an Indian all time test XI? Are you serious? I am pretty sure Farookh Engineer or Kirmani would be very upset hearing this. With Dhoni, I dont even rate him higher than Nayan Mongia in test matches. Mongia was a more solid wicketkeeper, and his batting was useful though not as flashy as Dhoni's is. But in tests, Dhoni has not batted as greatly as he should have to deserve a spot in the all time Indian test XI.

However, Dhoni can easily get into an all time Indian ODI XI. Probably after Sachin Tendulkar, Dhoni can stake claim to be India's best ever ODI player. If he continues his ODI form for a few more years, he might even leapfrog Sachin to be the best ever ODI player. He has an advantage in that he keeps wickets and he captains INDIA. He manages all these loads incredibly well.

 

[War]

Dhoni in an Indian all time test XI? Are you serious? I am pretty sure Farookh Engineer or Kirmani would be very upset hearing this. With Dhoni, I dont even rate him higher than Nayan Mongia in test matches. Mongia was a more solid wicketkeeper, and his batting was useful though not as flashy as Dhoni's is. But in tests, Dhoni has not batted as greatly as he should have to deserve a spot in the all time Indian test XI.

Usually i held your position on the above & i generally always picked Engineer. Even while all those smart Indian pundits & historians selected Dhoni as the IND test ATXI test keeper in the cricinfo 2010 exercise - India all-time XI: The XI | All-time XIs | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

But as i said that double century gave me re-think, since lets be fair Engineer, Kirmani nor Mongia never played a knock like that.

If his test batting form stays on this level for another few years, it would hard not to select him to such a hall of fame team.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

sometimes I wonder what reality people on this site live on, or is it just some of the indian fans on here are so brow beaten they're reluctant to stick up for their players? dhoni is the best wicket keeper india have had by miles, he is light years ahead of kirmani and engineer with the bat, he has more 50+ scores than them combined. he hasn't even played as many matches as kirmani yet. I wouldn't say he's a classy wicketkeeper but personally I think the fact no one actually finds anything to say about it to be rather telling as to how effective it probably is.

and tack on that he's been india's most succesful captain ever.

yeah, he's rubbish.

 

[puddleduck]

English football fans and Indian cricket fans... remarkably similar

 

[Satan666]

Okay lets stay on topic, all these old timing Indian names is making me feel sick. Just to note, Dhoni is the best keeper-batsman India will ever have, furthermore I rank him right under Ghilchrist!

 

[SaiSrini]

sometimes I wonder what reality people on this site live on, or is it just some of the indian fans on here are so brow beaten they're reluctant to stick up for their players? dhoni is the best wicket keeper india have had by miles, he is light years ahead of kirmani and engineer with the bat, he has more 50+ scores than them combined. he hasn't even played as many matches as kirmani yet. I wouldn't say he's a classy wicketkeeper but personally I think the fact no one actually finds anything to say about it to be rather telling as to how effective it probably is.

and tack on that he's been india's most succesful captain ever.

yeah, he's rubbish.

If you are referring to me by this post, I have never ever said Dhoni is rubbish... I am a huge Dhoni fan, and I will continue to be so forever. Its just his tests that I am talking about where he has not lived upto expctations. Till recently, he hasn't looked like he fits into the culture of test cricket. He has looked uncomfortable in tests, and that has affected his captaincy too in tests. In the shorter formats, he is a completely different player/captain, but in tests he has fallen short often recently. Maybe his batting averages might be better than Engineer or Kirmani but in those days, batting did not use to be like how it is now. To have him in an all time Indian XI says that Dhoni is the best ever wicketkeeper for India in tests, and I am sure people won't agree with it.

There have been talks recently about fans wanting Dhoni to give up test cricket and focus on the shorter formats where he is a completely different and great player. But if Dhoni can keep up this performance in the upcoming tests, India would love it. But he won't be rubbish if they doesn't, atleast not for me.

 

[Fenil]

Dhoni is the best Batting WK India has ever had. That said, in an all time side, I'd say Farokh Engineer or a Syed Kirmani were better keepers and I'd put them in the side just like Cricinfo people have included Jackie Hendriks in the Calypsos' all time best team over Jeffrey Dujon and Deryck Murray while they have Ian Smith taking up the gloveman's spot beating the likes of Adam Parore and Brendon McCullum for NZ.

 

[Slowcoach]

What the hell is this rubbish about resting Pattinson from the next test?
So we would rather lose the series and use the other bowlers as cannon fodder than risk an injury to one of our players?
What about we try and win the series, and if we are 2 or 3 down with one to play, then rest him.
This planning for the worstcase scenario thing is ridiculous, it's negative thinking, and negative thinking is usually rewarded with failure.
Same with the "attack the spinners" "plan". It wasn't a plan at all, it was an admission that we had no confidence at all in dealing with them if we played our natural game, so we adopted some die by the sword "tactic" that saw renowned stonewaller Cowan charge down the pitch playing a wild village yahoo as if he had no idea what his natural game was anymore. Stupid. Arthur should be sacked.
We should just play our natural game, pick the best and most balanced team to win each test, and forget all this overcomplicating the game rubbish.
As for our options, Smith is crap, and Maxwell is crap, so there is no point even trying to play them, neither of them can bowl, which makes a mockery of their "allrounder" status. This is a test squad, not some ODI or T20 rubbish, please select real players in future please.
Not...happy...Jan.
That said, I do like seeing Australia lose