Australia Tour Of India 2012/13

[StinkyBoHoon]

Why do the Indian selectors and some fans consider Rahane a middle order batsman when he bats at 3 in FC with a 62 average, has opened on occasion and opens in one dayers as far as I can tell?

I know the selectors said he was picked for the middle order when the squad was announced.

pretty standard practice to bring in prospective top order batsmen down the order initially. pujara and kholi started at 6 I believe. the interesting thing will be how they order them once tendulkar has retired. as with pujara, kohli and rahane they've got 3 batsmen that are natural number 3s.

can't help thinking pujara might actually take the no.4 spot once it's vacated. I'd personally like to see kohli at 3, an attacking no.3 shows real intent and there's a bit of ricky ponting about him. however, he's not a natural big scorer and rahane is (if his technique isn't exposed at international level)

 

[Epic]

pretty standard practice to bring in prospective top order batsmen down the order initially. pujara and kholi started at 6 I believe. the interesting thing will be how they order them once tendulkar has retired. as with pujara, kohli and rahane they've got 3 batsmen that are natural number 3s.

can't help thinking pujara might actually take the no.4 spot once it's vacated. I'd personally like to see kohli at 3, an attacking no.3 shows real intent and there's a bit of ricky ponting about him. however, he's not a natural big scorer and rahane is (if his technique isn't exposed at international level)

Well tbf, they both started at 6 because there was no other way we could fit them in to the side...

As for when Tendulkar retires, Kohli will most likely be the guy that ends up with the coveted #4 slot, unless our (new) openers are so defensive and keen on big runs that we need a Kohli @ 3.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the way our teams are setup right now, you basically get into the Test team by doing well for the limited overs side and that's really why Rohit Sharma has never broken into the Test side.

and murali vijay, and yadav, and chawla, and mukund, and unadkat, and saha.

it's actually one thing I think the indian team gets unfairly criticised for, the test selections have usually been made with a firm understanding that test cricket requires it's own skills and you need to have proved yourself in FC domestic cricket not, as people frequently accuse, in the IPL or ODI arena. even a few of the establish ODI players, like Jadeja, needed to do well in FC cricket before being given a test spot.

 

[Sedition]

Seems to me that they get stuck down at 6 because the rest of the order is pretty much set already.

When Kohli debuted at 5 against WI, India still had Laxman and Dravid, likewise during the Australia series, but moved down to 6 to accommodate the old guard, now is back at 5.

Pujara also debuting at 5, with Dravid and Tendulkar above him.

Not sure about other countries off the top of my head, but Cowan, Warner, Hughes, Marsh and even Khawaja made their debuts and played the majority of their games opening or at 3.

Seems a bit stupid to put a guy that much further down the order when he's never batted there, unless it's totally necessary. With Sehwag done and dusted there's an opening right at the top of the order where Rahane is experienced enough to step into.

 

[Epic]

Yeah, it's more about the already established players in the side than anything else. For example, Joe Root debut @ 6 for England against us in the last Test at Nagpur, not because they don't consider him an opener, but because that's the only way they could fit him into the side.

and murali vijay, and yadav, and chawla, and mukund, and unadkat, and saha.

it's actually one thing I think the indian team gets unfairly criticised for, the test selections have usually been made with a firm understanding that test cricket requires it's own skills and you need to have proved yourself in FC domestic cricket not, as people frequently accuse, in the IPL or ODI arena. even a few of the establish ODI players, like Jadeja, needed to do well in FC cricket before being given a test spot.

Mhm, you know what, I'm going to flip flop on this one.

 

[SaiSrini]

Looks like finally selectors saw the light. But the opening conundrum is not sorted out yet. Now its between Dhawan and Rahane. I will stick my neck out and say it should be Dhawan though Rahane has been waiting ages to play a test for India. Rahane is not a specialist opener in domestic cricket. Yes, he bats at No.3 but still that's called "makeshift" if you make him opener. Replacing one makeshift with another? I am not too much in favor on that. Especially when we tour abroad where conditions are expected to be really tough for us.

Vijay and Dhawan should open the next two tests, and should be given assurance that they will bat together at the top for at least the next 8-10 tests. Let them fail, but giving them that rope might help them feel better and succeed.

 

[spooony]

pretty standard practice to bring in prospective top order batsmen down the order initially. pujara and kholi started at 6 I believe. the interesting thing will be how they order them once tendulkar has retired. as with pujara, kohli and rahane they've got 3 batsmen that are natural number 3s.

can't help thinking pujara might actually take the no.4 spot once it's vacated. I'd personally like to see kohli at 3, an attacking no.3 shows real intent and there's a bit of ricky ponting about him. however, he's not a natural big scorer and rahane is (if his technique isn't exposed at international level)

Some players can see of the new ball and some can't. Attacking 3 maybe on Indian pitches or extremely good batting wickets but a failure if he needs to throw the anchor and grind it out waiting patiently before scoring. Such a guy bring stability to a side and let the others bat more freely around them. Look at Kallis. He had to play everything but his his natural way to fullfill that role for his country. The Kallis who was defensive and everyone overlooked back then wasn't the Kallis playing his natural game. Once Amla came in and took that role over we started to see the natural Kallis playing his natural game and how much did he improve and how well have he done. Suddenly the people started to take note. Dravid was one of thee best anchors around. India really never found someone to replace him yet.

 

[Aalay]

I just heard in one of the interviews of Aakash Chopra that India A is touring South Africa after IPL which can be a lifeline for Sehwag if selectors does want to take him to Sotuh Africa.

News and Analysis : Australia in India 2012-13 | 'A decision selectors had to take' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Sedition]

Obvious solution, have Vijay and Pujara open? They've been carrying Sehwag anyway and Rahane can have his lucky spot at 3.

You can't ask for a better situation for the youngsters who have proven themselves at home in these conditions to step up. Can't lose the series from here, but isn't a completely redundant game either, so give them to chance to do what Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar, Sehwag and Gambhir couldn't do in Australia while they watched from the sidelines.

 

[Aalay]

I personally would never move Pujara from his number 3 position because he has actually proved that he can build or anchor the inning from that position. If they want to include Rahane, they have to play him at either 6 or open the innings with him because those are the only 2 spots that are currently open in the lineup. As stinky pointed out that both Pujara and Kohli started their batting at number 6 when they made their debut. Pujara batted at 6 in our last tour of South Africa and Kohli batted at the same position in our home series against West Indies and they gradually got settled in the middle order. We have to do the same thing with Rahane because If the selectors are not seeing him as an opener, then he has to bat at 6. Once Sachin retire, Kohli can move at number 4 and we can have Rahane at 5 and someone like Manoj Tiwary at 6.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Some players can see of the new ball and some can't. Attacking 3 maybe on Indian pitches or extremely good batting wickets but a failure if he needs to throw the anchor and grind it out waiting patiently before scoring. Such a guy bring stability to a side and let the others bat more freely around them. Look at Kallis. He had to play everything but his his natural way to fullfill that role for his country. The Kallis who was defensive and everyone overlooked back then wasn't the Kallis playing his natural game. Once Amla came in and took that role over we started to see the natural Kallis playing his natural game and how much did he improve and how well have he done. Suddenly the people started to take note. Dravid was one of thee best anchors around. India really never found someone to replace him yet.

the thing I like about kohli though is that he pulls off the back foot way better than any young indian batsmen I've seen in a while. he actually looks comfortable and I don't really see bouncers ever being much of a serious problem in his career. he attacks but not in the way sehwag attacks, usually the opening bowlers have to try and get the batsman driving, sehwag would drive from the first ball regardless of how advisable it was.

interesting you mention kallis though, as I was going to say the one thing rahane has is that he seems a more natural big scorer than kohli, but then kallis wasn't always a big scorer either and he was fine in the top order.

 

[spooony]

the thing I like about kohli though is that he pulls off the back foot way better than any young indian batsmen I've seen in a while. he actually looks comfortable and I don't really see bouncers ever being much of a serious problem in his career. he attacks but not in the way sehwag attacks, usually the opening bowlers have to try and get the batsman driving, sehwag would drive from the first ball regardless of how advisable it was.

interesting you mention kallis though, as I was going to say the one thing rahane has is that he seems a more natural big scorer than kohli, but then kallis wasn't always a big scorer either and he was fine in the top order.

He did not score big as he was under team orders to stay in and let the others bat around him at all cost. When Amla took the roll over Kallis started to flourish and was batting more aggressively. Just shows how much he have been held back playing for his team and following team instructions. That is why they nick named him EverReady like the Battery.

 

[SaiSrini]

Some players can see of the new ball and some can't. Attacking 3 maybe on Indian pitches or extremely good batting wickets but a failure if he needs to throw the anchor and grind it out waiting patiently before scoring. Such a guy bring stability to a side and let the others bat more freely around them. Look at Kallis. He had to play everything but his his natural way to fullfill that role for his country. The Kallis who was defensive and everyone overlooked back then wasn't the Kallis playing his natural game. Once Amla came in and took that role over we started to see the natural Kallis playing his natural game and how much did he improve and how well have he done. Suddenly the people started to take note. Dravid was one of thee best anchors around. India really never found someone to replace him yet.

Dravid has just retired some months back. And Pujara is untested yet in foreign conditions, but he has more than proven his worth in home conditions. Lets wait and see how Pujara fares away. But even then, it would be too early to say something like "we have never really found someone to replace Dravid".

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I personally would never move Pujara from his number 3 position because he has actually proved that he can build or anchor the inning from that position. If they want to include Rahane, they have to play him at either 6 or open the innings with him because those are the only 2 spots that are currently open in the lineup. As stinky pointed out that both Pujara and Kohli started their batting at number 6 when they made their debut. Pujara batted at 6 in our last tour of South Africa and Kohli batted at the same position in our home series against West Indies and they gradually got settled in the middle order. We have to do the same thing with Rahane because If the selectors are not seeing him as an opener, then he has to bat at 6. Once Sachin retire, Kohli can move at number 4 and we can have Rahane at 5 and someone like Manoj Tiwary at 6.

I concur too. Pujara to me is a classical No.3 for India. Its obvious Indian fans who are bred on the Dravid type batting at No.3, want a similar type of batsman at No.3 whereas the Aussies who are bred on the Ponting type batting at No.3, feel that Kohli should be India's No.3. To me, India and Australia work differently and we need a Dravid type guy at No.3.

Once Sachin goes, Kohli should move to 4, Tiwary at 5, Dhoni at 6 and Rahane at 7. If we need 5 bowlers, Jadeja or Irfan Pathan replaces either Tiwary or Rahane (depending on the conditions).

 

[Epic]

You really see Dhoni as a long term #6? The only time it's even remotely okay for Dhoni to bat that high is when he's got an all-rounder coming in behind him, for me at least.

Btw, are there any genuine #6 lefties around the domestics? Because ideally you'd want at least 2 lefties in your Top 6/7...

 

[Gaurav_7]

I think Abhishek Nayar can prove to be a handy left hander at #6 or #7 if Dhoni comes at 6. Plus, he gives that AR option as well. He is a talented guy and I believe he can be a future prospect as far as AR is concerned.