Group A - Australia, Netherlands, Scotland, South Africa

[smssia0112]

There should be Haddin also in the lower middle order in watsons place but no more Hayden , if he play like this , we will definatley not going to win , he seemed very uncomfortable and nervous while playing his shots

Haddin isn't needed, we still have Symonds to come back, Hodge who would be hard to drop, and then Watson the same. I still feel Watson is a one dimensional bowler, and shouldn't be picked on it, and he would be the logical dropping for me, we don't need him that much, perhaps put Hodge and Clarke at 4 and 5, Symonds at 6 and Hussey back to 7, I realise he won't bat as much but our batting is strong enough to survive without him generally.

 

[aussie1st]

I wouldn't mind seeing Hussey at 4 as I stated before the start of this tournament. He has shown what he can do there and it gives him more than enough time to get set. What more he can hit out when needed or steady the ship.

 

[aussie_ben91]

There should be Haddin also in the lower middle order in watsons place but no more Hayden , if he play like this , we will definatley not going to win , he seemed very uncomfortable and nervous while playing his shots

That's a load of rubbish.

I'm fully aware of the strains on the body for quickmen but has he been injured while opening for Australia? Quick answer NO! So until that happens I don't see a problem with it.

That's incorrect because he needed a runner against India in the Champions Trophy after bowling 8 or 9 overs and then 20 minutes later coming out and opening the batting. He also collasped on that tour didn't he and was taken to hospital?

What people fail to realize is that Hayden was caught on the boundary on several occasions during the CBS. On these sort of grounds those sort of shots will go for six. Hayden brings experience and power to the side while Watson just turns over the strike and people are basing results judged on Watson's performances against 2 minnow's while Hayden's made a career against the top teams.

 

[aussie1st]

Fair enough, still won't make a difference being at 4. What's to say he won't get injured there? Watson is injury prone, Kallis has shown he can bat at 3 and bowl 10 overs no problem.

As for Hayden, if he was to be dropped it's nothing to do with how hes performing, it's to do with team balance.
Let me sum it up:
Hayden - Can't bowl
Clarke - Bowls + dynamic fielder, see C/H games to see what were we missing in the field
Hodge - Bowls
Watson - Bowls

Now if all of the above are scoring runs then pick the odd one out.

 

[WORLD CHAMPIONS]

Haddin isn't needed, we still have Symonds to come back, Hodge who would be hard to drop, and then Watson the same. I still feel Watson is a one dimensional bowler, and shouldn't be picked on it, and he would be the logical dropping for me, we don't need him that much, perhaps put Hodge and Clarke at 4 and 5, Symonds at 6 and Hussey back to 7, I realise he won't bat as much but our batting is strong enough to survive without him generally.

I forget about Roy then no place for Haddin

 

[aussie_ben91]

What's to say Hayden can't bowl? It doesn't matter if Hodge, Clarke & Watson can bowl. Hayden's batting credibility stands over all of them and getting a few runs with not outs against sides like the Netherlands should never come near to someone averaging over 50 this year because statistically, Ponting's the only batsman this year infront of him.

Kallis bats at 4 doesn't he? I just don't agree with a pure bat/bowl allrounder opening the batting. If you say Watson is injury prone then why would you want him opening the batting in the first place? Atleast if his batting at 4 he'll get some rest before he comes out to bat and thus lowering the strain he puts on his body.

 

[aussie1st]

Show me Hayden bowling record then. And if it was so easy to get runs against the Dutch what happen to Hayden?

Kallis bats 3 see the SA scorecards this WC. And if you are hiding a player cause you fear he going to get injured he shouldn't be in the side. You can't hide a weakness, what he should do is train up harder and get fitter. Again see Gilly he opens and keeps which puts a lot of strain on the body as well yet as he is just fine.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Well he does average 10 in the Australian OD domestic comp.

What's Hayden got to prove against the Netherlands though? He made 181 not out against New Zealand with a broken toe. Go find another Australian player whose made more in a ODI.

I'm not hiding anything from Watson but don't you think he'd bat better if he was given a little rest after bowling 10 overs? Gilly's a wicketkeeper, if Australia bowl first then his practically got his eye in before he goes into bat then doesn't he? :

 

[aussie1st]

Pathetic excuse and the type of attitude that isn't needed in the Aussie side. You score runs that what you are in the side to do not to prove something. What you are saying is Hayden should be allowed to get ducks all the way through this WC because hes got nothing to prove?

You think the selectors wouldn't have thought long and hard before moving Watson to opener? They clearly don't have a problem with him opening the batting and they are the people who count.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Well sure, I bet Hayden would've probably preferred to score a century but I don't think his going to dwell to much on only getting 29 and neither are the selectors. What you completely ignore is that he averages over 50 this year, isn't that enough to prove why you should be in the side? And that record behind only perhaps Ponting & Hodge in the team while someone like Clarke doesn't come near that and I've heard you say Clarke doesn't bowl as much because of his back.

 

[aussie1st]

Did you not read my post up above, I said he wasn't being dropped because of his performance but because of team balance.

Clarke only needs to bowl a few overs with Symonds, Hodge and Watson in the side, and I've already said I would put Hussey at 4 and Clarke down at 6. Clarke just made a 90, you can rubbish it all you like but Clarke can only make runs against sides that have been put up against him.

And you're dropping Clarke after 6 bad performances with the bat which he made up for with the ball but I bet you weren't calling for Hayden to be dropped when he had 6 bad performances.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Hayden had 4 bad performances but yet he was still averaging 10 more runs then what Clarke was in 6 bad performances.

Clarke's 90 wasn't rubbish, it just shouldn't be taken to heart. Hayden's been performaining enough with the bat to maintain his spot even if Clarke can bowl 2 or 3 overs.

Doesn't 28, 27, 19 & 0 look better then 7, 18, 9, 33, 0 & 15?

 

[aussie1st]

You can't go comparing a opener to a 4. Hayden knows what he has to do, he doesn't need to go upping the run rate in the last 10 overs usually compared to Clarke who has more times than not being forced to do just that.

Now if we are seeing bad patches, here is Hayden one during 2001
0,0,8,10,27,38
and during 2003
1,22,1,20,20,37,7

Did you want him dropped during these periods? Obviously not, it's a bad patch players go through them, Clarke just hit a 90 and even if he didn't he wouldn't have been dropped. Selectors won't drop Hayden either. Symonds will be come in for Watson or Hodge.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Why can't you compare an opener to a number 4? Anyone in the top 4 can make a century. You make it sound like every opening batsman bats until the 40th over and then everyone else has to slog it and get out and you're using that as an excuse.

What you fail to realize is that in 2001 Hayden came into the ODI side due to his complete domination of India in the earlier part and he was never really in the squad anyway as he was a replacement for a resting Mark Waugh or Adam Gilchrist. Infact those latter 2 scores of 27 & 38 were when Hayden was brought into the side full time and they mere signs of Hayden's emgerence in the ODI game once Mark Waugh was sacked. Although 38 isn't as bad a score as you make it out to be.
As for 2003, lol. Well he was ranked among the top 5 best batsma in the world wasn't he?

 

[irottev]

2001 and 2003 are a long time ago. And besides, look at what happened when he was retained. He started scoring runs again. How many players can play 9/10 good innings. Do you expect Hayden to succeed every innings?

THis is quite a heated debate really. I'm liking it.