India in England/Ireland/Scotland

[Leggie]

Thats your opinion. You came to India and couldnt win a series. We came to your own den, and you still couldnt win a series. If you dont have the top players fit, its your problem really. Part of being a good team is having the right players fit at the right time. As of now, India are a better team than England.

yeah i now i totally agree, its easy to say 'well our players are better than yours, but there not in nick', well thats their problem, if people are gonna think like that then why dont we just give players runs according 'how good they have in the past'...

 

[RoboRocks]

Thats your opinion. You came to India and couldnt win a series. We came to your own den, and you still couldnt win a series. If you dont have the top players fit, its your problem really. Part of being a good team is having the right players fit at the right time. As of now, India are a better team than England.

I have to agree with that.
If India beat England in this test, they deserve to move up the rankings.

 

[SaiSrini]

I think Dravid's utility to the team as a batsman outweighed Ganguly's utility to the team when he was captain (esp. the months leading up to his sacking).

Oh yes! Cant disagree. BUT, your point?

 

[sohum]

Allow me to rephrase.

England - Unbeaten at home for six years.

Let's see the teams they have played (results from Englands point of view):

2001 - Pakistan 1-1 (2 tests)
2002 - India 1-1 (4 tests)
2002 - Sri Lanka 2-0 (3 tests)
2003 - Zimbabwe 2-0 (2 tests)
2003 - South Africa 2-2 (5 tests)
2004 - New Zealand 3-0 (3 tests)
2004 - West Indies 4-0 (4 tests)
2005 - Australia 2-1 (5 tests)
2005 - Bangladesh 2-0 (2 tests)
2006 - Pakistan "3"-0 (4 tests)
2006 - Sri Lanka 1-1 (3 tests)
2007 - West Indies 3-0 (4 tests)

So interesting sequence there. Notably, England were unable to beat India on their last tour. Also interestingly, on the 4 tours taken by subcontinental teams (apart from Bangla), England has only won one -- against Pakistan -- and drawn the rest. This shows that opposition are not completely clueless but usually wilting from a short series. Of the victories, the ones I rate highly are the ones against Australia and New Zealand and the drawn series against South Africa. However, I expected England to be far more dominant in terms of winning series at home--home teams are usually better at home. They do finish off the job remarkably well when it comes to weak team, but when it comes to stronger teams, they have been sometimes found wanting.

India - Not good travelers.

I think this is a tag that has not been updated in too long. In fact, many statistics have been brought up in this very thread regarding India's increased competitiveness abroad. This may not mean winning series, but it involves not losing test matches and in fact winning them.

England - 2nd in the world

India - 5th in the World

I don't trust the rankings. For example, if India win this series, they're number 2 in the world. If you trust the rankings that much, then you will have to acknowledge that India are better than England provided India win this game.

England - Very good at home and 2nd in the world = favourites

India - Not good travelers and 5th in the World = Underdogs

Again, 2nd in the world with a very different team. If you expected to walk through the matches despite missing the services of Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones, I expect you hit a fuse somewhere in your thought process.

 

[Leggie]

Oh yes! Cant disagree. BUT, your point?

i think his point basically is that dravid is a better captain than ganguly....

 

[Will_NA]

In my opinion England could be a major threat to australia if they had the same bowling line up sd in 2005, with the exception of giles. its the injuries that are holding england back, otherwise i couldnt really imagine hoggy, flintoff or sp jones going through a bad patch, but weve all seen harmison...:

Harmison has shown encouraging improvement. I'll be optimistic about it.

Thats your opinion. You came to India and couldnt win a series. We came to your own den, and you still couldnt win a series. If you dont have the top players fit, its your problem really. Part of being a good team is having the right players fit at the right time. As of now, India are a better team than England.

I don't think you can help injuries. One injury kept Jones out for a year and a knee problem that he has had for years has kept him out another year. Can't really help it. You can't keep players fit. It's impossible. Everyone gets injured at some point in their career and, obviously, when it's your entire seam bowling attack at once, it's hard to perform as you did at your peak :

how many times we have to hear the same thing again and again."If" england had 2005's ashes attack then they will do this,that.Common get over it,its 2007.England always makes excuses when they perform badly.

The_leggie is Indian : and he said it not an England fan

When have we last used it as an excuse? :

 

[baburao]

Let's see the teams they have played (results from Englands point of view):

2001 - Pakistan 1-1 (2 tests)
2002 - India 1-1 (4 tests)
2002 - Sri Lanka 2-0 (3 tests)
2003 - Zimbabwe 2-0 (2 tests)
2003 - South Africa 2-2 (5 tests)
2004 - New Zealand 3-0 (3 tests)
2004 - West Indies 4-0 (4 tests)
2005 - Australia 2-1 (5 tests)
2005 - Bangladesh 2-0 (2 tests)
2006 - Pakistan "3"-0 (4 tests)
2006 - Sri Lanka 1-1 (3 tests)
2007 - West Indies 3-0 (4 tests)

So interesting sequence there. Notably, England were unable to beat India on their last tour. Also interestingly, on the 4 tours taken by subcontinental teams (apart from Bangla), England has only won one -- against Pakistan -- and drawn the rest. This shows that opposition are not completely clueless but usually wilting from a short series. Of the victories, the ones I rate highly are the ones against Australia and New Zealand and the drawn series against South Africa. However, I expected England to be far more dominant in terms of winning series at home--home teams are usually better at home. They do finish off the job remarkably well when it comes to weak team, but when it comes to stronger teams, they have been sometimes found wanting.

That says it all.

Harmison has shown encouraging improvement. I'll be optimistic about it.



I guess you're the fountain of wisdom around these parts then? :





The_leggie is Indian : and he said it not an England fan

When have we last used it as an excuse? :

I know he is an indian.Thats why i was giving him advice not to act like english fan.

Most of you still use it as an excuse.Everytime we say india played well you guys jump onto us by saying "our bowling attack is not in full strength" what will you call this?

 

[sohum]

Makes no sense. Can you rephrase them then?

Well, by claiming he doesn't know the answer, he automatically disqualifies the question as being rhetorical. Or he's just lying.

 

[Will_NA]

Again, 2nd in the world with a very different team. If you expected to walk through the matches despite missing the services of Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones, I expect you hit a fuse somewhere in your thought process.

So, was I wrong in thinking that England at home were favourites? :

It's interesting that you don't rate our victory against Pakistan seeing as they beat us 2-0 in Pakistan.

 

[SaiSrini]

[QUOTE="Will_NA]I don't think you can help injuries. One injury kept Jones out for a year and a knee problem that he has had for years has kept him out another year. Can't really help it. You can't keep players fit. It's impossible. Everyone gets injured at some point in their career and, obviously, when it's your entire seam bowling attack at once, it's hard to perform as you did at your peak[/QUOTE]

I know that. But thats not an excuse for you to say that your team is better than India.

 

[Leggie]

That says it all.


I know he is an indian.Thats why i was giving him advice not to act like english fan.

Most of you still use it as an excuse.Everytime we say india played well you guys jump onto us by saying "our bowling attack is not in full strength" what will you call this?

not to act like an english fan? hello, cricket is a sport where theyre friends at the end of the day, its not a war you know

 

[baburao]

So, was I wrong in thinking that England at home were favourites? :

It's interesting that you don't rate our victory against Pakistan seeing as they beat us 2-0 in Pakistan.

Dude trust me you will lose against the Sri Lankans also.

 

[Will_NA]

That says it all.


I know he is an indian.Thats why i was giving him advice not to act like english fan.

Most of you still use it as an excuse.Everytime we say india played well you guys jump onto us by saying "our bowling attack is not in full strength" what will you call this?

What rubbish is this?

Why do yo generalise all England fans?

Do you see me doing it to Indian fans?

Obviously, you rely on Sohum or Saisrini, etc to make valid posts and just nod along as you can't make valid posts yourself.

 

[sohum]

Test rankings. Take a look. One series doesn't make you a better team. India have played delightful cricket and have outplayed us since Lords and I am in no way saying they don't deserve this series victory, I am merely expressing my disappointment at getting beat by a lesser side to us. Now if you want to carry on arguing then there are plenty of walls for you to talk to, so please, put your dummy firmly in place and be gracious in victory please.

Yes, but I continue to repeat on your seemingly deaf ears that this is NOT the England team that is ranked 2! The Indian team playing cricket out there IS BETTER than the England team playing cricket out there, which is precisely why the scoreline is favoring India at the moment. Rankings really have nothing to do with it because this England team's bowling line-up does not in any way resemble their winning teams'. Of course, if England pull out a rabbit out of the black hole in this game, I'll gladly eat my hat and switch on to damage control mode.

 

[Will_NA]

I know that. But thats not an excuse for you to say that your team is better than India.

I have never used that as a reason.