India tour of South Africa

[LiveLoveABD]

Failures make you stronger if you have the right attitude

If what you said and I agree 100% with you is a yardstick then this team is more about statistical success with a piss poor attitude. Every single pundit and media person is behaving as if this tour has been a success for the ages and when you ask them why, it's the usual retort- What have the past Indian teams done? Well, the past Indian teams failed, the board reacted and made improvements and today we are in no way behind in terms of infrastructure and particularly financial security. Our prep was under par and that is already in the process of being rectified. The BCCI should be critiqued for the scheduling but they've come leaps and bounds in preparing a group of players ready to win overseas.

It is of utmost importance that instead of braying that 'Kohli is the first India captain to do such miracles in SA' we ask ourselves what Dhoni or Ganguly could have done with this group of players which includes Virat Kohli the batsman.

I will sight you two small examples-

1) Unadkat fielded a ball yesterday on the last ball of a Pandya over at deep mid wicket and Duminy ran two. Kohli and Pandya admonished him as if he had dropped a sitter in a world cup final. If you see the replays, even Jadeja wouldn't have been able to prevent two there. Kohli is guilty of dropping catches himself and no one bats an eyelid when that happens.

2) Dhoni was aggressively rebuking Pandey in the last couple of overs of an innings for running in his way. That for me sealed it.

When Ganguly and Dhoni were leaders, senior players were respected but not feared. Every individual in this team who's unsure of their place in the side and there are not many is petrified of Kohli. Fear creates insecurity, freedom creates champions. I might be wrong but in a high octane world cup pressure situation unless someone's individual brilliance comes through, we will crumble as a team. Just read Pandey's PC release and you'll know what I'm saying.

 

[asprin]

Dhoni was aggressively rebuking Pandey in the last couple of overs of an innings for running in his way. That for me sealed it.

I might be interpreting this wrong, but are you insinuating that Dhoni lost his cool because of pressure/fear from/of Kohli?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I might be interpreting this wrong, but are you insinuating that Dhoni lost his cool because of pressure/fear from/of Kohli?

Neither. It's just this team mantra of showing aggression when you're in the thick of the action. It transcends from the captain. Look, in Dhoni's case he rarely does this sort of stuff. But most of the other blokes love to puff their chest out and put on a fake show of bravado. The Unadkat incident in particular was quite pathetic.

 

[Gaurav_7]

Tbf, I agree about Unadkat but Dhoni shouted at Pandey because there definitely was a 2nd run there. We have always seen him let his players know when he feels there could have been more effort put into something. It wasn't the sort of good for nothing aggression displayed by Kohli and Pandya.

 

[abhi_jacko]

If what you said and I agree 100% with you is a yardstick then this team is more about statistical success with a piss poor attitude. Every single pundit and media person is behaving as if this tour has been a success for the ages and when you ask them why, it's the usual retort- What have the past Indian teams done? Well, the past Indian teams failed, the board reacted and made improvements and today we are in no way behind in terms of infrastructure and particularly financial security. Our prep was under par and that is already in the process of being rectified. The BCCI should be critiqued for the scheduling but they've come leaps and bounds in preparing a group of players ready to win overseas.

It is of utmost importance that instead of braying that 'Kohli is the first India captain to do such miracles in SA' we ask ourselves what Dhoni or Ganguly could have done with this group of players which includes Virat Kohli the batsman.

Noble thoughts and I agree this has been a process since Ganguly took over. We have had previous good showings overseas as well followed by abysmal poor performances as well. This is not a miracle, but it is an Achievement nonetheless. An achievement by a group of players led by Kohli. Cricket has never been about skills alone. When it comes to game day, especially in alien/trying conditions, whats happening between your ears matters as much as, if not more, than what is happening between the wickets. The same group of players when in a poor state of mind can capitulate under pressure of performance. Kohli has made some mistakes during this series, possibly costing us the Test series, but he has also done a fair amount of things right to win the ODI series in such thumping fashion. All I am saying is, I am not going to berate or worship Kohli based on his first overseas bout as captain. I will reserve judgement until a The Australia series and World cup.

Regarding questions like, what would Ganguly or Dhoni have done with this group of players? We will never know. Maybe they would have become world beaters or maybe Ganguly would have had a falling out with Kohli the player and Kohli would have been shunned. Or Dhoni would have preferred Ashwin over Chahal/Kuldeep for tying down the run flow in the middle overs instead of going for wickets. There are n number of hypothetical outcomes. I am just taking the results on face value and with a big pinch of salt at the same time. It is a fantastic discussion to have but we will never see Dhoni or Ganguly captain this group of players.

Meanwhile I am delighted that the team I support is tasting success overseas

Regarding Kohli's on field aggression, I think I have made my thoughts clear on that plenty of times. Do not like it, but cannot be bothered to make an issue out of it.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Noble thoughts and I agree this has been a process since Ganguly took over. We have had previous good showings overseas as well followed by abysmal poor performances as well. This is not a miracle, but it is an Achievement nonetheless. An achievement by a group of players led by Kohli. Cricket has never been about skills alone. When it comes to game day, especially in alien/trying conditions, whats happening between your ears matters as much as, if not more, than what is happening between the wickets. The same group of players when in a poor state of mind can capitulate under pressure of performance. Kohli has made some mistakes during this series, possibly costing us the Test series, but he has also done a fair amount of things right to win the ODI series in such thumping fashion. All I am saying is, I am not going to berate or worship Kohli based on his first overseas bout as captain. I will reserve judgement until a The Australia series and World cup.

Regarding questions like, what would Ganguly or Dhoni have done with this group of players? We will never know. Maybe they would have become world beaters or maybe Ganguly would have had a falling out with Kohli the player and Kohli would have been shunned. Or Dhoni would have preferred Ashwin over Chahal/Kuldeep for tying down the run flow in the middle overs instead of going for wickets. There are n number of hypothetical outcomes. I am just taking the results on face value and with a big pinch of salt at the same time. It is a fantastic discussion to have but we will never see Dhoni or Ganguly captain this group of players.

Meanwhile I am delighted that the team I support is tasting success overseas

Regarding Kohli's on field aggression, I think I have made my thoughts clear on that plenty of times. Do not like it, but cannot be bothered to make an issue out of it.

I know Ganguly and Dhoni would have won us the test series if their ability to extract the maximum from their players is anything to go by. Their track record speaks for itself. The Ashwin/Chahal debate? The great Virat Kohli and Anil Kumble fell out because of the inclusion of Kuldeep Yadav who won us a critical test on debut and is easily along with Bumrah and Bhuvi the lynchpin of our bowling attack. And if this is an overseas 'success' then let us not forget that this very SA team which inc. de Kock, de Villiers and du Plessis gave us a thumping at home in the limited overs when they were in India. Kohli is just in the right place at the right time. He's a GUN limited overs batter and has the limited overs attack of once in a lifetime.

I will keep saying this- Limited overs these days is like playing on a uniform wicket all round the world. I have myself a nice chuckle when people go 'Oh the next WC is in England and it's going to nibble around.. do we have the technique with the bat or the bowlers to create havoc?'

The bottom line is that world cricket now all over has flat tracks for limited overs to put bums on seats. Whether it's England, Australia, India, SA, NZ, Pak, WI, SL you name it.

I think this tour's highlight was the third test where our team showed GUTS and DETERMINATION. Apart from that, it's all standard stuff and while as an Indian I take pride from the test win, the current state of affairs still leave me sad.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

Oh Boy! That was some real fire from MS the last time I remember him foul mouthing was in IPL 2010 when he smacked 16 off the last over against KXIP.

 

[zwarrior]

Oh Boy! That was some real fire from MS the last time I remember him foul mouthing was in IPL 2010 when he smacked 16 off the last over against KXIP.

fb is filled with his memes. Some of them are damn funny but can't post that here due to swearing and language issues

 

[AliB]

Oh Boy! That was some real fire from MS the last time I remember him foul mouthing was in IPL 2010 when he smacked 16 off the last over against KXIP.

fb is filled with his memes. Some of them are damn funny but can't post that here due to swearing and language issues

Wanna translate that but, let it be...

 

[abhi_jacko]

I know Ganguly and Dhoni would have won us the test series if their ability to extract the maximum from their players is anything to go by. Their track record speaks for itself. The Ashwin/Chahal debate? The great Virat Kohli and Anil Kumble fell out because of the inclusion of Kuldeep Yadav who won us a critical test on debut and is easily along with Bumrah and Bhuvi the lynchpin of our bowling attack. And if this is an overseas 'success' then let us not forget that this very SA team which inc. de Kock, de Villiers and du Plessis gave us a thumping at home in the limited overs when they were in India. Kohli is just in the right place at the right time. He's a GUN limited overs batter and has the limited overs attack of once in a lifetime.

You know for sure? That's fantastic

If there is one thing I have learnt watching cricket, its that nothing is certain even about the most certain of things. A purple patch can turn into a horror run within a matter of two games. Sorry, but your assessments and mine on what Ganguly and Dhoni could have done are still going to be hypothetical. I am just open to the idea that things could go wrong as much as they could go well. In your case, I can see you have insurmountable angst against Kohli the leader (and the management) and you have already passed the verdict that whatever he does, he will either be get whats coming to him (in case of failure) or just be in the right place at the right time (in case of success).

I think this tour's highlight was the third test where our team showed GUTS and DETERMINATION.

I agree

The bottom line is that world cricket now all over has flat tracks for limited overs to put bums on seats. Whether it's England, Australia, India, SA, NZ, Pak, WI, SL you name it.

Wickets have been turning flat for a while. Even when MSD was was captain. Doesn't diminish his achievements and should not diminish any future achievements in limited over overseas for us.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Wanna translate that but, let it be...

Can you pm it to me?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

You know for sure? That's fantastic

If there is one thing I have learnt watching cricket, its that nothing is certain even about the most certain of things. A purple patch can turn into a horror run within a matter of two games. Sorry, but your assessments and mine on what Ganguly and Dhoni could have done are still going to be hypothetical. I am just open to the idea that things could go wrong as much as they could go well. In your case, I can see you have insurmountable angst against Kohli the leader (and the management) and you have already passed the verdict that whatever he does, he will either be get whats coming to him (in case of failure) or just be in the right place at the right time (in case of success).


I agree


Wickets have been turning flat for a while. Even when MSD was was captain. Doesn't diminish his achievements and should not diminish any future achievements in limited over overseas for us.

It's good that we agree on something. Let's just leave it at that. And till the time I see logical selection based on merit, not one's I want to see play and him achieve test match overseas wins in SENA, I'm a non believer. To sight you an example, I was completely and utterly appalled at Dhawan's inclusion in any format. I was wrong. He deserves his place in the limited overs. I might be wrong about Bumrah in tests, I will not be scared to doff my hat off if I'm wrong. End of the day, we both want Indian cricket to be dominant. I don't expect humility from Kohli and to a large extent I've supported him for being who he is on the field but a lot of his rubbish is uncalled for.

Also, my comment on Dhoni and Ganguly comes from watching cricket for decades. I respect your opinion that it's hypothetical and it is and there's no way of proving it otherwise. But, I also know from experience in life that leaders are leaders. It doesn't matter which era you put them in, they just flourish.

 

[Neo 7]

There was clearly a run out occasion if Unadkat had thrown the ball straight to Pandya's hands , if not at bounce . With all those smacking off Chahal , the aggression of VK & Pandya was intended at that situation . Even our Physics teacher knows that you have to throw the ball with a swinging motion to anyone claiming it . These things ofcourse could get anybody angry (even I was ) . Dropping a catch & ground fielding the ball are all different aspects .

 

[Villain]

This thread about a series crossed 100 pages.. a record I guess.




On topic:
SA's win in the second T20I has got people's interest back in it, looking forward to the final one. Hope to end it on a high note.

 

[zwarrior]

We won the series ! Dominating performance in both ODI and T20I. Amazing victory.