Simbazz
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Online Cricket Games Owned
I see a problem.
South Africa in England
- Thread starter Sureshot
- Start date
I see a problem.
DPRA
International Cricketer
4 Natural Bats, 4 All rounders (who on there day do hit the runs) and 3 Bowlers?
Could work.
evertonfan
Chairman of Selectors
Replace Bell with Shah and you've got a deal.
Simbazz
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Online Cricket Games Owned
Yeh but i don't see the bowlers being too happy without a Wicketkeeper, do you?
nikhil_99
International Coach
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Online Cricket Games Owned
Never say die
Ratings for SA
Although their defeat in the fourth Test took away some of the gloss, South Africa's first series victory in England for 43 years is an achievement that will live long in the memory. Cricinfo takes a look at the 12 men who made history for their country
Graeme Smith: majestic batting and magnificent leadership © Getty Images
Graeme Smith - 9
Majestic. Few could have imagined that Smith could live up to the sensation he caused on his maiden tour of England, but he did just that with a pair of performances that epitomised his never-say-die leadership
Neil McKenzie - 7
Overshadowed by his captain and opening partner, but quietly competent in everything that he did. He batted for a total of 11-and-a-half hours at Lord's to reassure his team-mates that survival was within their grasp
Hashim Amla - 7
From first Test to last, England targeted his perceived weakness against the short ball, but they were up against a much doughtier competitor than the one they had seen off in two Tests during the 2004-05 series
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/content/current/story/364800.html
nikhil_99 added 3 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...
Consistently inconsistent
England Ratings
Andrew Strauss - 4
For the second season running, Strauss has been left struggling to secure his winter tour place, and despite the eventual ease of his matchwinning half-century at The Oval, the doubts have not been allayed.
Alastair Cook - 6(0)
"Pretty sixties" have been the single biggest symptom of England's recent batting woes, and no-one has epitomised that trait more acutely than Cook. Since the sixth of his Test centuries.
Michael Vaughan - 2
His lowest ebb. England's most successful Test captain deserved a more fitting denouement, but in the end his atrocious form dictated the terms of his departure
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/content/current/story/364744.html
Ratings for SA
Although their defeat in the fourth Test took away some of the gloss, South Africa's first series victory in England for 43 years is an achievement that will live long in the memory. Cricinfo takes a look at the 12 men who made history for their country
Graeme Smith: majestic batting and magnificent leadership © Getty Images
Graeme Smith - 9
Majestic. Few could have imagined that Smith could live up to the sensation he caused on his maiden tour of England, but he did just that with a pair of performances that epitomised his never-say-die leadership
Neil McKenzie - 7
Overshadowed by his captain and opening partner, but quietly competent in everything that he did. He batted for a total of 11-and-a-half hours at Lord's to reassure his team-mates that survival was within their grasp
Hashim Amla - 7
From first Test to last, England targeted his perceived weakness against the short ball, but they were up against a much doughtier competitor than the one they had seen off in two Tests during the 2004-05 series
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/content/current/story/364800.html
nikhil_99 added 3 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...
Consistently inconsistent
England Ratings
Andrew Strauss - 4
For the second season running, Strauss has been left struggling to secure his winter tour place, and despite the eventual ease of his matchwinning half-century at The Oval, the doubts have not been allayed.
Alastair Cook - 6(0)
"Pretty sixties" have been the single biggest symptom of England's recent batting woes, and no-one has epitomised that trait more acutely than Cook. Since the sixth of his Test centuries.
Michael Vaughan - 2
His lowest ebb. England's most successful Test captain deserved a more fitting denouement, but in the end his atrocious form dictated the terms of his departure
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/engvrsa/content/current/story/364744.html
If England were to pick their best four bowlers then they could pick six batsmen AND their best keeper without much worry. The trouble is we keep picking ordinary bowlers in quantity.
Here's an interesting stat, besides losing FOUR series in a row against the top sides (AUS 5-0 ENG, ENG 0-1 IND, SRI 1-0 ENG & ENG 1-2 SAF), England picked ELEVEN different bowlers in those four series - Tremlett, Anderson, Broad, Sidebottom, Mahmood, Giles, Panesar, Harmison, Pattinson, Hoggard and Flintoff. Hardly grounds for consistency. In that same period England have used only seven different batsmen, of whom only one (Bopara) didn't play against South Africa. That despite a pretty poor showing all too often from the batting line-up. And of course four different keepers - Jones, Read, Prior and Ambrose
Owzat added 7 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...
Besides the absence of a keeper, I'd suggest one inexperienced batsman in a light batting order and trying to solve the problem of which bowlers to include by including all of them!
If England were to pick (the best) four from Panesar, Tremlett, Harmison, Flintoff, Sidebottom, Anderson and Jones, then they wouldn't need five bowlers. Collingwood is more than capable of bowling any fill-in overs, while Broad did ok in the last Test FOUR of his five victims were tailenders. Flintoff needs to take more wickets, it's no good "bowling well" unless you return the number of wickets to reflect that. I believe 14 of Anderson's 15 wickets were top order batsmen or the keeper, that is phenomenal. We have some good bowlers, if Anderson has finally 'come of age' and Harmison and the others can perform consistently, then there is no need of five bowlers.
I do find that batting stat astonishing, I think only EIGHT different batsmen have played for England in the last two years and that is quite unbelievable (Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Shah, Pietersen, Bell, Collingwood and Bopara) You could accuse Strauss of poor form and not getting runs when in. Bell averaged 22 after his 199 so he too gets in then out. Cook made a fifty in every Test against South Africa yet never passed 80. Collingwood came back strongly, England didn't lose even when he failed against South Africa. Vaughan scored 40 runs in the series yet Bopara and Shah never got a look in. Go figure.
Here's an interesting stat, besides losing FOUR series in a row against the top sides (AUS 5-0 ENG, ENG 0-1 IND, SRI 1-0 ENG & ENG 1-2 SAF), England picked ELEVEN different bowlers in those four series - Tremlett, Anderson, Broad, Sidebottom, Mahmood, Giles, Panesar, Harmison, Pattinson, Hoggard and Flintoff. Hardly grounds for consistency. In that same period England have used only seven different batsmen, of whom only one (Bopara) didn't play against South Africa. That despite a pretty poor showing all too often from the batting line-up. And of course four different keepers - Jones, Read, Prior and Ambrose
Owzat added 7 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...
Besides the absence of a keeper, I'd suggest one inexperienced batsman in a light batting order and trying to solve the problem of which bowlers to include by including all of them!
If England were to pick (the best) four from Panesar, Tremlett, Harmison, Flintoff, Sidebottom, Anderson and Jones, then they wouldn't need five bowlers. Collingwood is more than capable of bowling any fill-in overs, while Broad did ok in the last Test FOUR of his five victims were tailenders. Flintoff needs to take more wickets, it's no good "bowling well" unless you return the number of wickets to reflect that. I believe 14 of Anderson's 15 wickets were top order batsmen or the keeper, that is phenomenal. We have some good bowlers, if Anderson has finally 'come of age' and Harmison and the others can perform consistently, then there is no need of five bowlers.
I do find that batting stat astonishing, I think only EIGHT different batsmen have played for England in the last two years and that is quite unbelievable (Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Shah, Pietersen, Bell, Collingwood and Bopara) You could accuse Strauss of poor form and not getting runs when in. Bell averaged 22 after his 199 so he too gets in then out. Cook made a fifty in every Test against South Africa yet never passed 80. Collingwood came back strongly, England didn't lose even when he failed against South Africa. Vaughan scored 40 runs in the series yet Bopara and Shah never got a look in. Go figure.
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2006
- Location
- Manchester
What a test series, definitely lived up to the expectation, the first test had drama, fantastic batting, some good bowling from England on the first day and then some great resiliance from the Saffas. The selection of Pattinson overshadowed the 2nd Test, when really Harmison should have played. The 3rd Test saw a fantastic innings from Graeme Smith, who I have new found respect for after some brilliant performances in the field but more importantly with the bat. Then the 4th test was dominated by the new Skipper Pietersen.
There were a few real stand out players, the likes of Ashwell Prince, AB De Villiers, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Smith, Morne Morkel, Andrew Flintoff, but I thought that Englands top performer, and the best bowler in the series was undoubtedly James Anderson. There were many who were writing him off before this summer, saying he'd be carted around, would be inconsistant and be dropped out of the side, but he's proved his critics wrong, and certainly showed his worth. He swings the ball both ways at good pace, and with very little change to his action or wrist position, making his inswinger very hard to pick for both right and left handers. He's had a brilliant summer.
Stuart Broad has been the let down of the summer, he's played a few decent knocks, but has failed pretty momentously with the ball. He struggles to take wickets at regular intervals, and rarely looks threatening to the top batsmen. The only thing that is keeping him in the side is his batting, but we've yet to see him perform with the bat on a tough pitch. He struggled with the pace and bounce of The Oval pitch in this game. He's got potential, but needs to improve his consistency and find a wicket taking ball, maybe upping his pace would help. He's certainly not good enough for a first XI place at the moment. He needs to go back to county cricket, like Sidebottom did, and learn to take wickets consistently in FC cricket.
I have to say well played to the South Africans, they played very well, and were the team to hold their nerve at the key times. The series was as close as I expected, and to be fair, either team could have won. Fantastic series, now looking forward to the Ashes.
My England team for the first test in India:
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Prior (WK)
Flintoff
Harmison
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar
That attack has the potential to be the best in world cricket, the variation is magnificent, pace and bounce from Harmison, Swing from Jimmy, the Left Arm angle from Sidebottom, the aggression, pace and reverse swing from Freddie and the spin and bounce from Panesar. Prior also has to come in, Ambrose is useless. His keeping doesn't account for the lack of runs, Prior would have been as good with the gloves and far better with the bat. Ambrose is no Alan Knott or Mark Boucher, his keeping isn't good enough to warrant his place alone. Prior offers far better balance, he's a proper batsman, and a decent keeper, he only had 1 bad test really.
There were a few real stand out players, the likes of Ashwell Prince, AB De Villiers, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Smith, Morne Morkel, Andrew Flintoff, but I thought that Englands top performer, and the best bowler in the series was undoubtedly James Anderson. There were many who were writing him off before this summer, saying he'd be carted around, would be inconsistant and be dropped out of the side, but he's proved his critics wrong, and certainly showed his worth. He swings the ball both ways at good pace, and with very little change to his action or wrist position, making his inswinger very hard to pick for both right and left handers. He's had a brilliant summer.
Stuart Broad has been the let down of the summer, he's played a few decent knocks, but has failed pretty momentously with the ball. He struggles to take wickets at regular intervals, and rarely looks threatening to the top batsmen. The only thing that is keeping him in the side is his batting, but we've yet to see him perform with the bat on a tough pitch. He struggled with the pace and bounce of The Oval pitch in this game. He's got potential, but needs to improve his consistency and find a wicket taking ball, maybe upping his pace would help. He's certainly not good enough for a first XI place at the moment. He needs to go back to county cricket, like Sidebottom did, and learn to take wickets consistently in FC cricket.
I have to say well played to the South Africans, they played very well, and were the team to hold their nerve at the key times. The series was as close as I expected, and to be fair, either team could have won. Fantastic series, now looking forward to the Ashes.
My England team for the first test in India:
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Prior (WK)
Flintoff
Harmison
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar
That attack has the potential to be the best in world cricket, the variation is magnificent, pace and bounce from Harmison, Swing from Jimmy, the Left Arm angle from Sidebottom, the aggression, pace and reverse swing from Freddie and the spin and bounce from Panesar. Prior also has to come in, Ambrose is useless. His keeping doesn't account for the lack of runs, Prior would have been as good with the gloves and far better with the bat. Ambrose is no Alan Knott or Mark Boucher, his keeping isn't good enough to warrant his place alone. Prior offers far better balance, he's a proper batsman, and a decent keeper, he only had 1 bad test really.
evertonfan
Chairman of Selectors
I'd rather have Jones than Sidebottom. He's lost a bit of that nip that he brought to the team at first but hopefully that's down to the injuries. But still, Anderson is our best bowler so he can't be dropped, Harmison should always make the team when he's on form, we need Monty as a spinner and Sidebottom therefore has to make way for Jones in my team.
Why would Key be a backwards step? Because he played for us about 4 years ago and wasn't good enough then? Because isn't that the exact same position as Sidebottom? I think some people seriously under-estimate Rob Key, to say Newman is a better batsman is wrong. Though, I like the look of him. He isn't as good as Key.
Key has learned a lot about his game. Unfortunately, I can't see him being picked because of his attitude. Which is too honest for the politics of Test Cricket. I reckon he has a better chance of a ODI return before a Test return. Better than Strauss. It's a shame, because he is good enough imo. He knows his game, which is more than what can be said for several England players.
RoboRocks
Chairman of Selectors
He didn't do much wrong in South Africa in 2004/5 when he made a couple of fifties. England then decided to go with Ian Bell instead after his good form in county cricket.
Highlander999
ICC President
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Location
- London
But as Matt pointed out earlier. Our selectors aren't exactly the brightest bunch
Simbazz
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Online Cricket Games Owned
That true, they take players who do "back hand," jobs for people with roofs, rather than the inform county players.
God, if everyone was fit mentally, and physically, a squad like so would be immense.
Trescothick
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
KP
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson
Panesar
Collingwood misses out, but Bell is in there just because he has the potential. Bowling wise, i missed out Harmison because of my personal feelings towards him but Sidey could easily be struggling for a place, and Broad, as Hoggy would be around.
God, if everyone was fit mentally, and physically, a squad like so would be immense.
Trescothick
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
KP
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson
Panesar
Collingwood misses out, but Bell is in there just because he has the potential. Bowling wise, i missed out Harmison because of my personal feelings towards him but Sidey could easily be struggling for a place, and Broad, as Hoggy would be around.
