South Africa in England

[shravi]

Yeah, 3 wickets in 2 days is nothing to be proud of. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Drop Vaughn. Drop Broad. The former won't happen but I can always hope.

 

[irottev]

Yay SA 10 wicket thrashing. Well done! The bowlers finally started to bowl a bit better, but still not up to their potential. Was good seeing Anderson getting hit (i'm glad he wasn't injured, was just glad to see it after his bouncers earlier in the season)

If I was an England fan and i'm really glad i'm not, i'd be really angry that a dud like Pattinson got selected from nowhere like that. You guys seem to love Broad for some reason, but he's nil to be honest. He does nothing with the ball. He averages very almost 50 with the ball. A lot of his games have been against New Zealand who are ranked 7thish and have weak batting at the moment. How's he going to take Australian wickets in the Ashes if he can't perform against weak teams?

 

[evertonfan]

If I was an England fan and i'm really glad i'm not, i'd be really angry that a dud like Pattinson got selected from nowhere like that.

I can't speak for the rest of us England fans but trust me, I definitely wasn't best pleased with the selection.

 

[Skater]

Pattinson won't play in the next game I don't think. The selectors would be brave if they did play him. I suppose they picked him in the first place as a way of picking people who are in form, instead of sticking with people who have experience. He is having a very good season with Nottinghamshire, he is a bowler that should have suited the swinging Headingley and with a bit of consistency he can do it. The ball to remove Prince was brilliant.

Good to see Flintoff back in. He said himself this is the first time he has felt completely fit bowling since he can remember, even the Ashes in 2005. He is slowly getting back into it with the bat and has bowled his usual silly amount of overs.

Hopefully we can get Sidebottom back in for Pattinson, that will add an extra threat to the attack. If not, Hoggard or Tremlett. Replace Ambrose with Read, I know it won't happen but it should.

 

[m_vaughan]

Yay SA 10 wicket thrashing. Well done! The bowlers finally started to bowl a bit better, but still not up to their potential. Was good seeing Anderson getting hit (i'm glad he wasn't injured, was just glad to see it after his bouncers earlier in the season)

If I was an England fan and i'm really glad i'm not, i'd be really angry that a dud like Pattinson got selected from nowhere like that. You guys seem to love Broad for some reason, but he's nil to be honest. He does nothing with the ball. He averages very almost 50 with the ball. A lot of his games have been against New Zealand who are ranked 7thish and have weak batting at the moment. How's he going to take Australian wickets in the Ashes if he can't perform against weak teams?

I am not trying to make excuses but fact is England lost the game on the first day. South Africa bowled well under the best conditions for bowling in the entire match and from then onwards England were always playing a chasing game.

England came back strongly in the 2003 series after losing to South Africa twice, and I wouldnt rule that out again this time.

Vaughan's batting is a concern, but his captaincy is still brilliant and crucial for England. In any case, I would not recommend changing leadership during a test series, and especially in an important one as this.

With respect to Broad, well, the stats are against him and he hasnt bowled well in this match but I know he has the talent which will show eventually. Although England do need Sidebottom in the test team, and eventually Simon Jones, the perfect matchwinner, will also be required.

Freddie will also peak soon I would expect, so overall things do look good for England. Besides South Africa are a quality side and 2nd best in the world right now, so I dont think England would have expected to dominate the Saffers like they did to the Kiwiz and some of other teams that have toured England.

m_vaughan added 4 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

Pattinson won't play in the next game I don't think. The selectors would be brave if they did play him. I suppose they picked him in the first place as a way of picking people who are in form, instead of sticking with people who have experience. He is having a very good season with Nottinghamshire, he is a bowler that should have suited the swinging Headingley and with a bit of consistency he can do it. The ball to remove Prince was brilliant.

Good to see Flintoff back in. He said himself this is the first time he has felt completely fit bowling since he can remember, even the Ashes in 2005. He is slowly getting back into it with the bat and has bowled his usual silly amount of overs.

Hopefully we can get Sidebottom back in for Pattinson, that will add an extra threat to the attack. If not, Hoggard or Tremlett. Replace Ambrose with Read, I know it won't happen but it should.

I think people are being harsh on Pattinson. Fact is he had bowled brilliantly for Notts to get the attention of the selectors, who for their part did select him since he was in such good form. Nothing wrong with that.

He dint bowl as well as expected but thats ok. Not everyone can hit top gear straight away and sometimes it might take a player a bit to adjust. But I'm afraid with Sidebottom back now, Pattinson might have to go back and continue bowling well with Notts to stay in contention.

 

[evertonfan]

He'll more than likely turn into another one capper. It's harsh on him, but it's what'll happen. I just don't see any long term future for him in the England side.

 

[Skater]

He'll more than likely turn into another one capper. It's harsh on him, but it's what'll happen. I just don't see any long term future for him in the England side.

Maybe in Tests, but I think One Day Internationals will see him quite a bit. He is in the provisional squad for the Champions Trophy.

 

[evertonfan]

You maybe right, but it's only the provisional squad. He may not yet make the final cut. It's like I have a provisional driver's license but that doesn't mean I can drive yet. That has a lot to do with the fact that I keep plowing my instructor's car into fences/lamposts/other cars.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

I can't speak for the rest of us England fans but trust me, I definitely wasn't best pleased with the selection.

I just don't understand the selection. The ECB spend all this time picking players to go to these academy's, "A" tours, give out central contracts, have players around the main squad to gain experience of the international environment and then pick some bloke who's taken a few wickets in 6 County Championship matches and has only played 12 (inc. this test) first class matches in all! Every now and then the selectors have a monumental rush of blood to the head and do this sort of thing.

Poor Chris Tremlett must be wondering how the hell he is going to get a game when someone like Pattinson gets picked ahead of him. No disrespect to Pattinson but he is not what England needs.

For the last decade or so the selectors have been keen on batting depth and yet for this game, despite our notoriously fragile batting order, they for some reason believed that five specialist batsmen would be enough. That score at Lord's was the first big score England have posted in a long, long time. We couldn't post big totals against NZ, we were rubbish in Sri Lanka and yet a one off score against South Africa on a flat deck and suddenly we're good enough to play five specialist batsmen!

Replace Ambrose with Read, I know it won't happen but it should.

No it shouldn't. How many more times does Read need to show his batting isn't good enough for international cricket? You can't afford to carry a keeper. Adam Gilchrist was a one off, but New Zealand, India, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Australia and even England have shown you need a keeper to be able to bat decently at international level. Read has too many technical deficiencies to cope at this level. Ambrose isn't good enough with the bat, not nearly good enough. Unless you bowl short at him he won't score runs. If Prior can learn to keep off Sidebottom then he is the one for the job. He seemed to have more issues off Sidebottom (left armer) than anyone else if my memory serves me correctly.

I feel mostly sorry for James Anderson this match. Bowled nicely and batted with a huge amount of grit and determination in the second innings. If I was him I would be seriously annoyed at seeing Pietersen come in after him, blaze 13 off 5 and then get out. Especially when, as I've said, we only had five specialist batsmen and the situation did not require quick scoring.

 

[evertonfan]

I could pick stevie's post apart sand say exactly why I agree with it, but i'll save myself a job and just say that those are my sentiments exactly. Why did Anderson show more determination to get stuck in than our entire top order? Why is Tremlett always picked in a 12 man squad but he's never used when he has the chance to be? And also, what is Lee's new found obsession with a wicket keeper who has constantly struggles at the highest level?

Anderson has been fantastic this series though with no luck at all. I'm confident that another big haul a la Trent Bridge earlier on in the summer is on its way.

 

[Simbazz]

Is anyone else really really impressed with the South African pace attack? Especially how they're bowled.

I'm not a fan in how Kallis is being used, but still, the Morkal/Steyn attack is good, quick and certainly full of anger! (Any man who will square up to Flintoff in the heat of a battle needs a handshake, and his head testing) but also how Smith has used the out of rythem Ntini, he's almost nurturing him into a rhythem. My advice, drop Harris, he's nothing from what i've seen, granted it limited but the balls done nothing and his wickets have come with impatience rather than skill.

South Africa are such a superior team, but i'm impressed with Broad once again, his batting really is keeping him in the side, good on the lad!

I've never been a huge fan of Anderson but todays proformance has swung it. I think most people will understand a hit on the head hurts, but from a fiery South African, its gotta be a bit painful! His time with the bat has now made me think that he's actually trying to improve! And he is, its just he's a bit incosistant! But after today, i can live with it!

 

[Highlander999]

Is anyone else really really impressed with the South African pace attack? Especially how they're bowled.

Yeah, it is bloody scary, seeing such pace. Morkel especially concerns me for the rest of the tour. Steyn is ruthlessly accurate and Ntini looked back in form again. I'm just wondering why they aren't playing Nel instead of Harris????

 

[evertonfan]

They're bowling attack is decent, but the way we batted throughout this Test would make a nursery's bowling attack look lethal.

 

[Simbazz]

I'd drop Harris for Nel, mainly because Smith probably could generate more turn and danger himself than Harris! His action doesnt allow for any huge amount of spin, it allows for tail-enders to score cracking 4's.

 

[Highlander999]

They're bowling attack is decent, but the way we batted throughout this Test would make a nursery's bowling attack look lethal.

I dunno. I felt Cook and Strauss actually looked pretty decent. It is just Vaughan and KP which concern me and with Bell being as reliable as my local train, you should take a pinch of salt when it comes to watching our middle order.

I'd drop Harris for Nel, mainly because Smith probably could generate more turn and danger himself than Harris! His action doesnt allow for any huge amount of spin, it allows for tail-enders to score cracking 4's.

I rate Nel above Ntini. He just always looks dangerous