West Indies in India 2014/15

[PokerAce]

Not a big fan of Raina in Tests, for obvious reasons. But if Dhoni and the management are considering him for the Test series in Australia, then he definitely needs to be drafted in the Test XI against WIndies. Makes logical sense. But practically speaking, I highly doubt that Dhoni will sacrifice Jadeja for the home series. In which case, it will always be a toss up between Mishra v Raina. I don't see them both fitting into the playing XI. Don't forget IPL Sharma will also be a popular option for the management if things play out in the expected manner.

If we get the usual MS Dhoni who likes to play safe (not the Dhoni that turned up in England), then this would be the most probable XI in the first test:

Dhawan
Vijay
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane

Rohit/Raina
Dhoni

Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami/Ishant
Bhuvi/Aaron

I do expect Rohit would return over Raina, but I would prefer it to be other way around. I think Raina has handled his short ball issues.

India do go in with 2 spinner and 2 pacers, so that will continue. Jadeja and Ashwin are the obvious ones in that case. I would like Bhuvi to be rested totally for teh WI series. He thrives on the conditions and he is not going to find no help in India. He has had a tough gruelling tour to Eng, and we need him in Aus. No point bowling him into the ground in unhelpful conditions in India. Don't expect that to be the case though. Of course the other argument is that the spinners will be doing most of the bowling so Bhuvi is unlikely to be overworked.

I would liek Aaron to be tried I think the lad has potential. Play Aaron and Ishant, rest Bhuvi. We may get Bhuvi and Ishant though.

 

[abhi_jacko]

^^ Surprisingly, I agree with all points

 

[SaiSrini]

@PokerAce: I dont think Bhuvi is going to be useful in Aussie conditions. There, with almost no swing and only help for "hit the deck" kind of bowlers, I am fully expecting Bhuvi to struggle there because of the kind of bowler that he is. With his pace, he will get carted around by the likes of Warner and co. People like Aaron, Yadav, Ishant, Shami, etc would be successful in Australia. Most likely, not Bhuvi (again I never thought Bhuvi will do well for India but he eventually did; so he can prove me wrong again here also).

Too early to bring in Raina for the Australia test series. Rohit hasn't played enough in tests overseas for him to be discarded. They need to continue persisting with Rohit. Maybe have Raina as an additional backup in the side and to keep Rohit and others on their toes. But Rohit should get first preference over Raina in tests (esp. overseas)

 

[PokerAce]

@PokerAce: I dont think Bhuvi is going to be useful in Aussie conditions. There, with almost no swing and only help for "hit the deck" kind of bowlers, I am fully expecting Bhuvi to struggle there because of the kind of bowler that he is. With his pace, he will get carted around by the likes of Warner and co. People like Aaron, Yadav, Ishant, Shami, etc would be successful in Australia. Most likely, not Bhuvi (again I never thought Bhuvi will do well for India but he eventually did; so he can prove me wrong again here also).

Too early to bring in Raina for the Australia test series. Rohit hasn't played enough in tests overseas for him to be discarded. They need to continue persisting with Rohit. Maybe have Raina as an additional backup in the side and to keep Rohit and others on their toes. But Rohit should get first preference over Raina in tests (esp. overseas)

Well even so I think you will agree it would be madness to drop Bhuvi going into the series, or very very unlikely to say the least. Also while its true that the swing won't be quite as much as in Eng, but it still does a fair bit off the seam in Aus, and I think Bhuvi is still our best bowler to exploit that.

Your larger point is well taken though, we need bowlers who can hit the deck and get the ball to shoot up from good length which is why I would like Ishant and Aaron to be part of the attack. Ashwin could also like the extra bounce there.

 

[Aalay]

I was expecting this because this India A team did look pretty strong. However, as I have mentioned before this WI team is unpredictable and and might even manage to win couple of ODI's but I don't see them winning the series.

India A v West Indians, Mumbai Report : Spinners give India A thumping win | Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[PokerAce]

Yeah, its a rather emphatic win. Mishra with a super spell, and its good to have Unmukt Chand, the last U-19 World Cup Indian Captain do well with the bat. WI susceptibility to spin is why I and a few have been asking for Mishra's inclusion in the side. He has all the guiles required. However it seems Jadeja and Ashwin are the two most likely to lead the charge. In tests perhaps even go for 3 spinners and 2 seamers with Mishra as the third and Jadeja as a genuine all-rounder, expected to contribute lower down the order.

 

[War]

To be fair over the past 20 years the one spinner who has been giant in all those home wins was Kumble and MSD has never played with Kumble in his squad. Without the chief destroyer of sides on those sinning tracks, MSD has delivered better home results than any skipper before him did with Kumble in their side. MSD has always had to make do with a spin attack that has no one even remotely close to Kumble, and still, delivered 70% win in home tests, which is the biggest home win % of any Indian skipper ever. Even with Kumble in his side Ganguly had a home win of 46%.

So I don't see the lack of some like Kumble suddenly becoming an issue in this series for MSD. Yes there was the Eng series where Swann and Panesar got the better of India spinner, but apart from that series, MSD has always had to make do with the lesser spinners and still delivered more wins in India than anyone before him. There is no reason to say that suddenly out of the blue the spinners will suddenly be an issue.

I should have quantified that statement better. What i meant was the 2012 ENG series was sort of like a beginning of a new era/change of guard series for IND, similar to AUS 1st series post the 2006/07 Ashes when McGrath/Warne left. Or Windies 1st series after 1991 in ENG when Greendige/Richards/Dujon/Marshall left. All part of the bad period of test cricket IND has been under since the 4-0 whitewash in ENG 2011.

That 2012 series was the 1st one when a large portion of the famous 4 middle order + Sehwag was either gone or in obvious decline. Of course IND dominance at home starting in the 1990s with this group was not just about Kumble & later Harbhajan combining to spin teams out as you obviously know. Teams also had to deal with those batsmen at home piling on massive runs which made Kumble/Harbhajan & under Dhoni - Ashwin/Ojha jobs easier.

So going into that 2012 series, many suspected IND didn't that traditional batting security for home conditions, which exposed some limitations in Ashwin/Ojha bowling. As much as I like Mishra, he also was exposed a bit in tests & I've seen many former IND players in recent years comment on the state of IND spin - India's spin crisis: 'If you push 11-year-olds into T20, they will never learn to bowl spin' | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[SpitfiresKent]

I was expecting this because this India A team did look pretty strong. However, as I have mentioned before this WI team is unpredictable and and might even manage to win couple of ODI's but I don't see them winning the series.

India A v West Indians, Mumbai Report : Spinners give India A thumping win | Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

What I want to know is, why on earth were the Windies only playing 1 spinner? A part time spinner I should add.

 

[PokerAce]

What I want to know is, why on earth were the Windies only playing 1 spinner? A part time spinner I should add.

I think Narine their main spinner was unavailable for the practise side. Having said that he has been playing on Indian pitches for about 20 days now, so that should be good practise for him.

Also I think the real problem is not WI bowling but more their batting. If they keep folding under 150 or 200 to spinners then even the addition of Narine is not going to help them much.

EDIT - Just read Narine has been withdrawn from the tour by WICB in light of his ban.

 

[PokerAce]

I should have quantified that statement better. What i meant was the 2012 ENG series was sort of like a beginning of a new era/change of guard series for IND, similar to AUS 1st series post the 2006/07 Ashes when McGrath/Warne left. Or Windies 1st series after 1991 in ENG when Greendige/Richards/Dujon/Marshall left. All part of the bad period of test cricket IND has been under since the 4-0 whitewash in ENG 2011.

That 2012 series was the 1st one when a large portion of the famous 4 middle order + Sehwag was either gone or in obvious decline. Of course IND dominance at home starting in the 1990s with this group was not just about Kumble & later Harbhajan combining to spin teams out as you obviously know. Teams also had to deal with those batsmen at home piling on massive runs which made Kumble/Harbhajan & under Dhoni - Ashwin/Ojha jobs easier.

So going into that 2012 series, many suspected IND didn't that traditional batting security for home conditions, which exposed some limitations in Ashwin/Ojha bowling. As much as I like Mishra, he also was exposed a bit in tests & I've seen many former IND players in recent years comment on the state of IND spin - India's spin crisis: 'If you push 11-year-olds into T20, they will never learn to bowl spin' | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Yeah the Eng series loss was down to the spinners. The pitches were made to help them, Swann and Panesar just did way better. Ojha was poor Ashwin ineffective. I think Ashwin has kicked on from there though, and better spinner than he was then. The batting order being in a state of transition also didn't help, obviously.

 

[PokerAce]

India ODI Squad for the first three test ODIs has been announced. West Indies in India 2014-15 : Ashwin rested, Kuldeep picked in ODI squad | Cricket News | India v West Indies | ESPN Cricinfo

There are a few real surprises.

Most notable is Ashwin has been rested. Amit Mishra returns, which is great as the general opinion on the board is that he needs to play. Of course Mishra had a very good start and stint earlier in the year in the World T20, but sort of went down towards the later stages of the tournament. He needs to deliver, and grab this latest opportunity. However he has the guile and the variations so one should be optimistic.

Perhaps the most notable news is the call up of Kuldeep Yadav. The 19 yr old, has impressed in the CLT20 and its interesting to see him being fast tracked into the side. He has the talent and clearly one for the future. An early start will help immensely.

Ishant continues to be left out of the ODI side, and one wonders if this means he is out of reckoning for the WC with the Selectors. Apart from this those who remained untested or barely tested on the Tour to Eng have all be booted out. Rahane and Dhawan should be the openers, and personally thats how it should be into the WC.

 

[Aalay]

Hah so as I expected, Kuldeep Yadav has been brought in immediately which is always good to see. He is full of talent and has great control over his bowling. He also is a unique bowler which we don't see in world cricket nowadays. I was surprised that both Shami and Bhuvi got picked because I feel they could have been rested for the ODI series as they both had pretty long tour of England. It's also good to see Umesh Yadav being retained because I think he will be very useful in Australia.

Narine being withdrawn is pretty silly decision I think. He will bowl sometime before the world cup so why are you stopping him now? If he gets banned just before the World cup, WI will be in more trouble. I think he should have played in this series and if he does get banned, he still has enough time to tweak his action a bit and come back. Holding him back from the Indian umpires is just silly.

I also think that Ashwin was rested because of this ICC crackdown of suspect bowling. All the mystery bowlers apart from Herath, Mendis and Ashwin have been banned, and I think they want to hold back Ashwin these crackdown cools off and than unleash him again. Not that I think Ashwin is chucking but I can't find any other reason than that to rest him.

A notable exclusion is Sanju Samson though. I really think he should have been there, instead of Murli Vijay.

 

[Aalay]

Another loss for WI against India A.

WIdns 266/9 (50.0 ov, SC Williams 0*, KAJ Roach 0*, DS Kulkarni 3/39) - Match over | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Unmukt Chand looks in a good touch.

 

[War]

Hah so as I expected, Kuldeep Yadav has been brought in immediately which is always good to see. He is full of talent and has great control over his bowling. He also is a unique bowler which we don't see in world cricket nowadays. I was surprised that both Shami and Bhuvi got picked because I feel they could have been rested for the ODI series as they both had pretty long tour of England. It's also good to see Umesh Yadav being retained because I think he will be very useful in Australia.

Narine being withdrawn is pretty silly decision I think. He will bowl sometime before the world cup so why are you stopping him now? If he gets banned just before the World cup, WI will be in more trouble. I think he should have played in this series and if he does get banned, he still has enough time to tweak his action a bit and come back. Holding him back from the Indian umpires is just silly.

I also think that Ashwin was rested because of this ICC crackdown of suspect bowling. All the mystery bowlers apart from Herath, Mendis and Ashwin have been banned, and I think they want to hold back Ashwin these crackdown cools off and than unleash him again. Not that I think Ashwin is chucking but I can't find any other reason than that to rest him.

A notable exclusion is Sanju Samson though. I really think he should have been there, instead of Murli Vijay.

I saw a cricinfo report with C Lloyd saying that someone told the WICB on arrival, that Narine will be called again if played - so I can see why they withdrew him. I guess he could still go & get tested & possibly have his action cleared & be picked for the test series.

True on Ashwin, which is why i mentioned IMO in the other thread I think the umpires have potentially got it wrong in calling Narine. WI could probably still be competitive in the ODIs without him, but in the tests - nope.

 

[PokerAce]

I saw a cricinfo report with C Lloyd saying that someone told the WICB on arrival, that Narine will be called again if played

That seems very witch-hunty to me. Why must Narine necessarily be called if he plays. What if his action is fine, or if he doesn't bowl that one delivery that is causing him issues.