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I dunno, man. There's plenty of LBWs given when a batsman has advanced down the pitch. That, and, if the ball hits you on the full and you're down the pitch, in front of the stumps you can (and should) be given out...

Just because you're down the wicket it doesn't absolve you of any LBW wrongs... It makes it harder for a human umpire. ...a CODED umpire on the other hand is different.

True, but you are way, way less likely to be given out, so perhaps this should be reflected in the game (rather than a blanket not out as I suggested previously).

It was more the second decision, the one that pitched way outside off, that I had a 'problem' with really, because that would never be given out. Getting hit straight in front and being given out is still unlikely but much more likely than being given out when the balls pitching outside off.

Aesop's opinion: let Big Ant do whatever they feel is best as it's going to be a damn hoot playing this game either way.
 
I agree with what you're saying but to the computer its out!! So how do you tell a computer that (a) is out because its hitting the stumps but (b) isn't out but its hitting the stumps! I'm asking how would you program a computer to be uncertain?? An umpire never would give you out because he can't be sure what will happen but a computer "knows" what will happen. I know nowt about programming but I don't think its possible to make a computer have "doubt" factored into its decision making,. It's kinda like telling it its wrong when its right!

It would be possible due to having inputs like where it hit (how far down or line of the stumps) etc.

I'm kind of responsible for the LBW stuff, i did have two yesterday were shockers, only ones i've had mind, and i asked if there was a less sophisticated rule for lbw in nets as with edges (in edges you edge you're out, there's no other consideration). However Ross did answer it is the full in game LBW system and asked for examples, i think grkrama and angad posted videos about that in good faith. Unfortunately the atmosphere is soured by the other insanity we've had today, also some people maybe missed Ross' post and think it's not the full LBW system...
 
True, but you are way, way less likely to be given out

Absolutely, so maybe it needs a percentages thing put on it or something, but to blanket all LBW's not out by advancing creates a pretty huge exploit for cheats and I'd rather have an overally aggressive LBW decision than people parking up half way down the pitch and not being given out. I'm sure there's a happy medium that can be put in place, if indeed... there is an issue.

It was more the second decision, the one that pitched way outside off, that I had a 'problem' with really, because that would never be given out.

In all honestly, I haven't bothered looking at any of the LBW videos because these guys generally cry wolf and then it turns out there's no muss no fuss and I haven't seen any of Ross' posts on the subject because I was too busy getting 'Thanks' notifications from Blocker, so I felt I was through the looking glass most of the morning...
 
Absolutely, so maybe it needs a percentages thing put on it or something, but to blanket all LBW's not out by advancing creates a pretty huge exploit for cheats and I'd rather have an overally aggressive LBW decision than people parking up half way down the pitch and not being given out. I'm sure there's a happy medium that can be put in place, if indeed... there is an issue.



In all honestly, I haven't bothered looking at any of the LBW videos because these guys generally cry wolf and then it turns out there's no muss no fuss and I haven't seen any of Ross' posts on the subject because I was too busy getting 'Thanks' notifications from Blocker, so I felt I was through the looking glass most of the morning...

Agreed - I'm sure a middle ground is easily reached if Ross and co feel the need to change anything.

All I'm saying is that this best get cleared up soon or else I won't sleep properly until the release date.

On a side note, why is the ball in CA white? Everyone knows cricket balls are red.
 
From Wiki:

When a not-out LBW decision is evaluated, and if the replay demonstrates the ball has made impact more than 2.5 m away from the wickets, various additional criteria apply to account for the uncertainty of the ball's potential direction after pitching. For example, if the ball pitches more than 2.5 m from the wicket and travels less than 40 cm before hitting the batsman, then any not-out decision given by the on-field umpire stands. It has also been decided that if the batsman is more than 3.5 m from the wicket, then again not-out decisions will stand. The only picture in which an LBW decision will be reversed in favour of the bowler is if the batsman is 2.5?3.5 m away from the wicket and the ball travels more than 40 cm after pitching before hitting the batsman. In that case, some part of the ball must be hitting the middle stump, and the whole ball must be hitting the stumps below the bails; otherwise, the result is again inconclusive and the call stands. In cases where the original decision is out, the 2.5 m or 40 cm distances do not apply, as in that state Hawk Eye must show the ball to be completely missing the stumps in order for the umpire to undo his decision.
 
Isn't there a DRS rule about how far down the pitch you are?

The 2.5m rule that's been quoted only relates to the limitations of the technology. Basically, the software doesn't have enough data to calculate a projected trajectory based on the limited amount of data. So if you're able to get that far down the wicket (it's possible) and you're given out, the technology can't reverse the decision because it hasn't got enough data to predict the path of the ball.

The key section of the rules to consider with advancing down the wicket is:

...it is to be assumed that the path of the ball before interception would have continued after interception, irrespective of whether the ball might have pitched subsequently or not.

So basically, if it pitches in line with the stumps, and it's going on to hit them, you're out. Irrespective of where you are the wicket. It's VERY difficult for the human eye to account for the discrepancies of a player being in an abnormal batting position* in such a short amount of time it takes a player to advance down the crease. Traditionally, the benefit of the doubt lies with the batsman as it's almost impossible to judge the "height" of where the delivery would end up based on the player being down the wicket, regardless of if it pitched in line or not. That's why they're not usually given out.

Not enough information for a computer program and not enough for a human.

...Now, since we have a "perfect" system that's error-free by design (and errors are subsequently programmed in to create the illusion of error) then those 50/50 decisions in real life, will be 100% absolutes in a computer game. I would caution BigAnt to dial back on that too much, because then you're opening up the game to even weirder LBW decisions.

Does all that make sense?

LBW is such a curious law and it's always open to personal interpretation. I'm always over-cautious when it comes to it and when you bring it down to the rudimentary numbers and law of averages when it comes to the actual AMOUNT of stump vs. the size of the player vs. the odds on hitting them, most LBW's are not out, by default.

What DRS is does is backs the umpire as the "benefit of the doubt" rather than any individual player and it says if the umpire thinks it was happening, it is happening, regardless of the percent of the stump the ball may or may not hit based on the technology. You'll see many decisions being called "good" when the ball is only hitting a half of the leg stump and it's not given out, for example, then those same decisions being called "bad" when they ARE given out. It comes down to three things:

The Player
The Match Situation
The Other decisions during a game.

If it's a good player on a roll and he's batting well, the umpires will be less-inclined to give a 50/50 LBW decision.

If the match situation is precarious and it's going down to the wire, those LBW decisions are given more weight and the umpires will be less inclined to give those 50/50 decisions. The opposite applies to games where they're done and dusted and it's a shitty player batting. If there's been a tonne of LBW's during any given game, they become less and less likely as the match goes on. Law of averages applies there. There's always exceptions to this of course, but as a general rule, you're taught to be aware of all these elements when umpiring.







*Switch hits is a huge issue for LBW's because the batsman will often take a completely different stance with his back leg becoming his front one, etc. So the rules applied change in milliseconds for the umpire and it's almost-impossible to apply the normal laws in that instance, which is why if you're hit on the pads doing a switch hit or similar, you're going to be out more often than not.

EDIT:

All this is of course my interpretations of what is taught during umpire education courses.
 
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During the NZ v India test series one of the kiwi commentators was talking about the DRS and in particular how a decision can be overturned if at least 50% of the ball was hitting the off/leg stump! He argued that if the technology is that accurate why not remove the grey areas around the 50% differential an say if any part of the ball is hitting any part of the stumps its out! His argument was that the within the lbw law the umpire has to decide if the ball will go on to hit the stumps and if 1% of it is then should it be out?? He didn't say that its a flawed system but that if the technology is that good why not make it more black or white and remove the grey areas. I think it was Ian smith. It was a fair point
 
During the NZ v India test series one of the kiwi commentators was talking about the DRS and in particular how a decision can be overturned if at least 50% of the ball was hitting the off/leg stump! He argued that if the technology is that accurate why not remove the grey areas around the 50% differential an say if any part of the ball is hitting any part of the stumps its out! His argument was that the within the lbw law the umpire has to decide if the ball will go on to hit the stumps and if 1% of it is then should it be out?? He didn't say that its a flawed system but that if the technology is that good why not make it more black or white and remove the grey areas. I think it was Ian smith. It was a fair point

Agree with the sentiment that if the technology is that good, why don't we 'trust' it?

The balance of the game has to be taken into account though. If we took 1% of the ball hitting the stumps as 'out' according to DRS, then bowling teams would be reviewing almost every single LBW decision. It just wouldn't work - it gives the batsmen absolutely nothing to work with.
 
Yep snowy I know what you mean, I think with the present system if the umpire thinks its clipping the stumps he generally errs on the side of caution, and unless he's shown to have dropped a clanger the DRS backs him which is fair enough, the funny thing is, for me as a traditionalist, one should take the umpires decision and get on with it! The history of cricket is littered with stories of bad umpiring decisions, and unless they're gonna use DRS to say unequivocally its out or not and remove the grey areas then they may as well go back to the old ways and accept the decision! I don't think umpires make bad decisions on purpose and with the way DRS is implemented they have more scope to be a "not outer" I think many times they're pretty certain the ball is clipping the pegs but also knows if they give it not out the DRS will back them!
Anyway getting back to the game, as I said earlier how would that be relevant with a coded umpire that knows exactly what will happen? If in real life a spinner bowls a full ball, you advance well forward and it hits your foot on the full, the umpire doesn't know how the ball will react indeed nobody does but in a computer game the "umpire" knows. Its actually bending my head a bit now!

----------

Actually thinking about it is there or will there be in future an option to not have BARS so if you wanna play historic matches you have to accept the umpires decision and get on with it?
 
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To clarify the last 15 odd pages of nonsence (I skipped 10.. too many pages to read before I could respond), when I was conducting my 'edges are a script' test thanks to The Fonz's insight, I was swinging at the ball without using any footwork input (on many different settings, including the most difficult). Without any real thought into placement of the set bowling marker, I was able to connect (albeit a thick edge) straight away, so yes, the game does let you hit the ball without any footwork used.

Lack of footwork would restrict your players ability to make adjustments based on the path the ball is taking, which appears to be dependant on timing of the shot to where the ball is at the time (if it's inswinging and you play your shot 'early', you'll probably get an edge due to inaccurate anticipation of the path of the ball.. play 'late' and you'll know with more certainty how much the ball is going to swing).

There could be many a time when you do wish to play a shot without footwork. the LAS controls forward or backward foot placement outside of the normal batsman stance (as well as left and right, obviously).. the shot played has defaut 'shifting of weight' within it, so there is always 'footwork', but not of the extent of a front foot lunge or a back foot step/stand up position. If I'm in the perfect body position to play a drive without having to lunge forward or step back, I don't need to use the LAS to play the shot.. of course, the ball would have to be going straight for my bat to intercept it based on the shot played. Only through diligent placing of the bowling marker to where it needs to be will guarantee this, otherwise it's almost foolish to do in a game situation.
 
Thread needs more cake...
 
900x900px-LL-f267bc10_modulescopperminealbumsuserpics690801Wii_Cake.jpeg


Nothing gets me more pleased than thinking of an 8 year old who wanted nothing more than a Wii nun-chuck cake.
 

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