ICCCT2006: Group A

[Sureshot]

Yardys a better batsman and I'd say will get more wickets in ODIs. JD is a stunning fielder though.

There'd be room for both in my side, there should room for them in Fletchers side too.

 

[m_vaughan]

Yardys a better batsman and I'd say will get more wickets in ODIs. JD is a stunning fielder though.

There'd be room for both in my side, there should room for them in Fletchers side too.

They are very important one day players and must hence both play.

 

[cricketmad09]

I havent seen Yardy play, but it will be interesting to see whether the guy is a fair dinkum all-rounder, or another useless "spare parts" player.

And England having the best fielding outfit is diffenatly argueable. Seeing as Ponting, Symonds & Clarke are all in the same side.

Add Hogg to that, aswell as Lee, who has a fantastic arm, and McGrath is just as accurate with his 3rd man throwing than his bowling.

 

[irottev]

I think England should play 2 spinners. Lets face it, they don't have much of a chance at the moment so why not try something new? It may work. Sounds interesting. However without Flintoff bowling playing both Yardy and Dalrymple is a big call.

 

[puddleduck]

Strange that we have built our strength in the test arena in the last few years around a strong pace attack, and yet in Odis we are considering taking the two spinners option. I think Yardy and Dalrymple/Blackwell/Giles could possibly work in the same team. These days English spinners are pretty adept at keeping the runs down in OD cricket, and especially 20-20 cricket. Since they are all (bar Fatty Blacky) pretty good fielders, and top order batsman (bar Gilo) it could work. New Zealand have gotten away with getting the best out of multi-dimensional players (the nice word for bits and pieces players) perhaps England need to try a similar approach.

Although that all said, it may well improve England as Odi outfit, but it will be very unlikely to allow us to consistently challenge the top sides. Improvement is essential, but we are pretty much at rock bottom in Odi cricket, so there is a long way to go.

 

[Sureshot]

Why Giles? JD is just as good and is a proper batsmen.

So what will our 1st team be?

1. A Flintoff (captain)
2. JM Anderson
3. IR Bell
4. R Clarke
5. PD Collingwood
6. JWM Dalrymple
7. SJ Harmison
8. EC Joyce
9. J Lewis
10. SI Mahmood
11. KP Pietersen
12. CMW Read (wicketkeeper)
13. AJ Strauss
14. MH Yardy

Are the options.

I'd expect Clarke and maybe Joyce, but he could replace Tres...

Whatever team we put out we'll have plenty of bowling options.

 

[puddleduck]

Why Giles? JD is just as good and is a proper batsmen.

So what will our 1st team be?

1. A Flintoff (captain)
2. JM Anderson
3. IR Bell
4. R Clarke
5. PD Collingwood
6. JWM Dalrymple
7. SJ Harmison
8. EC Joyce
9. J Lewis
10. SI Mahmood
11. KP Pietersen
12. CMW Read (wicketkeeper)
13. AJ Strauss
14. MH Yardy

Are the options.

I'd expect Clarke and maybe Joyce, but he could replace Tres...

Whatever team we put out we'll have plenty of bowling options.

Well I put Giles and Blackwells names in the frame because even if not for the Champions trophy they are both people who have, and possibly will again, played Odi cricket for England. I was referring to the option of playing 2 spinners in general, is it something England will take on long term, or just in the immediate future? I mention Giles still, because his economy rate of just over 4 an over is useful, and he has one of the best list A bowling figures out of all our spinners. That said, I would love for Yardy and Dalrymple to really take to international cricket, as they would both offer more than just useful if they do.


As for the team, I think being in India they would possibly have to pick Yardy and Dalrymple, certainly ahead of Clarke. With those two plus Harmison, Lewis, and then Mahmood or Anderson if he proves he is back to match sharpness, then we would have a few bowling options. Collingwood and Bell being able to fill in if bowlers are not having a good day even Kp can take some of the load.

That allows us to bat down to 8, and is not even including the fact that Freddie when fit to do so, adds yet another bowling option. The batting order I think picks itself for the most part. With the only debate being do you trust Colly, Bell, and only one of Yardy/Dalrymple/Clarke to bowl as the 5th and 6th bowlers and add in another genuine batsman, or do you give yourself as many bowling options as possible.

Must admit the squad actually looks reasonably healthy, and with Freddie to resume bowling duties in due time, if, and I seriously hope they do, Yardy and Dalrymple adjust to the rigours of International cricket, we could have a very versatile side with plenty of options for when someone like Harmison is spraying it around more than an army of cats on heat.

 

[Sureshot]

Yardy and JD are very good at controlling the pace of the game too, they want stray much more through a career higher than Giles. Plus they offer us more mobility in the field, and of course better batting.

My team would be:

Strauss
Bell (To Open?)
KP
Colly
Flintoff
JD
Yardy
Read
Mahmood
Harmison
Anderson

I just don't think Lewis will work in India.

 

[Deleted member 11215]

drop mahmood from that team hes proved he just cant perform in one day cricket

 

[usy]

drop mahmood from that team hes proved he just cant perform in one day cricket

I second that, gives way too many runs.

 

[Sureshot]

He did well in our last 2 ODIs vs Pakistan, it's him Clarke or Lewis.

Clarke shouldn't be in the team anyway, Lewis despite his accuracy might not work in India, although saying that he bowled well vs Pakistan on some flat wickets that offered little movement off the seam.

 

[puddleduck]

CLewis despite his accuracy might not work in India, although saying that he bowled well vs Pakistan on some flat wickets that offered little movement off the seam.

You seem to be forgetting that in Odi cricket a geniune swing bowler, if he bowls nearly all his overs at the start of the innings will get swing for the entire spell. The white ball will always provide early swing, and considering that you have a the fielding restrictions in place he should be perfect for the role.

Fair enough in test cricket I do believe he should never really play for England as he only offers something at the start of an innings, or in bad English weather, but in Odis, the white ball will always swing.

Also saying in that playing in India will be to his disadvantage, is not taking into account that Ithan Pathan has been very successful with a white ball in India. He bowls at pretty much the same pace as Lewis, and indeed when England toured there, even slower at times.

As I said, just because it's somewhere like India, doesn't in any way mean a bowler with accuracy can't be successful.

 

[Sureshot]

I was supporting his inclusion for Sunday, just saying it might not work.

 

[BigCrickNan]

I just don't think Lewis will work in India.

and Saj Mahmood will?

 

[puddleduck]

I was supporting his inclusion for Sunday, just saying it might not work.

Fair enough, I know you have often been for his inclusion in the past, certainly a while back when I myself was against it.

I do agree that it could go very wrong and he gets carted, but hopefully he will continue his recent form and continue to cement his place in the Odi side. I think it is fair to say that Mahmood could go even more disastrously wrong than Lewis might in terms of worst case scenarios.