New Zealand in South Africa

[Vcassano]

Smith criticising the pitch is ridiculous - we don't want another sodding flat pitch, we want pitches with demons in it but where quality batting (a'la Amla and Kallis) is rewarded but shoddy batting is ruthlessly punished (See: New Zealand).

 

[irottev]

243 unbeaten at declaration. Sinclair finishes on. He must be selected next time. Season after season he's one of the leading run scorers.

I can pick em. Andre Adams just took 4 wickets for 10, can improve on those figures as well. Got a handy 30 with the bat too.

 

[jordox]

It is too easy, because we last played a test in December last year and there was another big gap between those the the ons before as well. Plus all our test players were on ODI duty during the domestic season. These players havn't played tests for almost a year. Some havn't batted for months at all.

Don't make excuses. New Zealand have played rubbish cricket and whilst I agree that they have been unfairly treated in the amount of tests they play, they just aren't doing the basics right. Getting behind the ball, technique, putting away the bad ones.. New Zealand are just struggling to do that and whether or not its test cricket or backyard cricket you should be doing that.

And really, look at the team. It just isn't test material right now. Vettori and Bond are the only truely world class players in the team.

I'm not saying they can't win a test, I'm sure that they could because New Zealand always fights hard but really, its been poor.

 

[genghis_khan]

this is what happens when 2-metre Peter gets injured

 

[irottev]

Don't make excuses. New Zealand have played rubbish cricket and whilst I agree that they have been unfairly treated in the amount of tests they play, they just aren't doing the basics right. Getting behind the ball, technique, putting away the bad ones.. New Zealand are just struggling to do that and whether or not its test cricket or backyard cricket you should be doing that.

And really, look at the team. It just isn't test material right now. Vettori and Bond are the only truely world class players in the team.

I'm not saying they can't win a test, I'm sure that they could because New Zealand always fights hard but really, its been poor.

I'm not making excuses. It's fact. I totally agree we are playing rubbish, but why that is? What I wrote is maybe a reason for that. It's pretty difficult going up against bowling like that when you havn't played in a while. There wern't many "bad balls" to hit.

Also Fleming is easily World Class, but we do lack consistent performers. That's been the problem.

Lets face it. It's hard winning a test series overseas. I was never expecting us to win, I was kinda hoping to win a test and draw it. But that was a pretty bad performance and at the end of the day, our players arn't THAT bad. They just didn't perform.

We arn't in the same league. I'm not making excuses for them. Unlike in ODI's, I realize we have a poor test side at the moment.

 

[jordox]

I'm not making excuses. It's fact. I totally agree we are playing rubbish, but why that is? What I wrote is maybe a reason for that. It's pretty difficult going up against bowling like that when you havn't played in a while. There wern't many "bad balls" to hit.

Also Fleming is easily World Class, but we do lack consistent performers. That's been the problem.

Lets face it. It's hard winning a test series overseas. I was never expecting us to win, I was kinda hoping to win a test and draw it. But that was a pretty bad performance and at the end of the day, our players arn't THAT bad. They just didn't perform.

We arn't in the same league. I'm not making excuses for them. Unlike in ODI's, I realize we have a poor test side at the moment.

good boy thats all I asked.

And lol, Fleming is not world class in my opinion at all bud. His never really proved himself against the big boys and just doesn't make runs when it matters. I really like him and he is a great player, but not world class.

 

[irottev]

You already forgot his 274* against you guys last time? Anyone who can score that against quality opposition has to be world class. Anyone who can hit Murili for 7 sixes in 1 innings and belt a 50 ball hundred, official or not is world class.

His average isn't flash, but it is still decent. He's had to play a lot of cricket in a weak batting line up plus on some pretty bad NZ wickets back in the day.

 

[ivanvdm15]

when's the next test starting?

 

[irottev]

It's on the first page of the thread and cricinfo.

It's Friday.

 

[Sureshot]

You already forgot his 274* against you guys last time? Anyone who can score that against quality opposition has to be world class. Anyone who can hit Murili for 7 sixes in 1 innings and belt a 50 ball hundred, official or not is world class.

His average isn't flash, but it is still decent. He's had to play a lot of cricket in a weak batting line up plus on some pretty bad NZ wickets back in the day.

He's very good, I wouldn't put him in the same boat as Ponting though. He's close, hasn't got a good enough conversion rate imo.

 

[Animator!]

I agree with SS. Fleming is a good player, fantastic state/domestic/county level player, but he's only very good at international level, he's not world class. I wouldn't bracket him with the Ponting's, Hussey's, Kallis's and the Yousuf's.

 

[icyman]

That may be because of the team !
New Zealand have been always under-rated and i'm sure you will agree with that.Had Fleming been in Australia he would have probably been hailed as of the best ever Test batsmen.

 

[Animator!]

If Fleming had been Australian he wouldn't have played test cricket. Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Slater, would all have been picked ahead of him.

You cannot argue that his batting quality and statistics suffer because of playing a poor side. Andy Flower played in a Zimbabwe side worse than the current New Zealand side and was hailed as a world class player who easily averaged 40+.

Unless everytime Fleming gets to thirty he's batting with the tail then that statement makes no sense at all. The team your in doesn't stop someone become or even being world class, it's the player themselves. Fleming is a good international player, but not world class by any means.

 

[irottev]

He's very good, I wouldn't put him in the same boat as Ponting though. He's close, hasn't got a good enough conversion rate imo.

Who CAN you put in the same boat as Ponting? He's the best batsman in the world. There are maybe 3 batsmen who come close.

On conversion rate, I agree, however there are times as mentioned above, where he's stuck with the tail enders and hits out for the team's benefit.

Some of you don't understand the concept of 'World Class'. I'm not saying he's one of the best batsmen in the world. Anyway, his captaincy itself makes him world class in my opinion.

His overseas average is: 45.86 by the way. His overall average is bad, because he's played half his matches on NZ green top wickets. You can see when he bats. He has excellent technique, plays his shots beautifully and is one of the best players of spin in the game.

Anyway, being World Class or not, I guess is up to whoever's making that opinion. In my opinion he is. If you guys don't agree, then too bad I guess.

 

[Sureshot]

He's a very good captain (was), no doubting that. As a batsman he isn't world class, world class is defined as being up their with the worlds best. Ponting is that, he set's the markers. Kallis, Hussey and Yousuf can follow in the group (just) behind him, they are the world class batsman in the world at this moment in time. Fleming is in the group behind that lot, not world class, because world class is what it says "World Class".