Australia Tour Of India 2012/13

[War]

sometimes I wonder what reality people on this site live on, or is it just some of the indian fans on here are so brow beaten they're reluctant to stick up for their players? dhoni is the best wicket keeper india have had by miles, he is light years ahead of kirmani and engineer with the bat, he has more 50+ scores than them combined. he hasn't even played as many matches as kirmani yet. I wouldn't say he's a classy wicketkeeper but personally I think the fact no one actually finds anything to say about it to be rather telling as to how effective it probably is.

and tack on that he's been india's most succesful captain ever.

yeah, he's rubbish.

Well to be fair, i think before this double century their was so fair logic to not consider Dhoni to an India ATXI over Engineer & Kirmani.

His batting although it probably more naturally better those two 70s legends, never truly convinced at test level, especially versus good bowling teams. For his batting ability he probably should have averaged over 40-45 more consistently in tests, especially when you consider how excellent his ODI batting is.

So that underachievement in test batting + the fact that Engineer/Kirmani were better keepers (which would be key in an IND ATXI keeper dealing with an army of spinners), generally gave them an edge.

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Dhoni is the best Batting WK India has ever had. That said, in an all time side, I'd say Farokh Engineer or a Syed Kirmani were better keepers and I'd put them in the side just like Cricinfo people have included Jackie Hendriks in the Calypsos' all time best team over Jeffrey Dujon and Deryck Murray while they have Ian Smith taking up the gloveman's spot beating the likes of Adam Parore and Brendon McCullum for NZ.

I always viewed this as a major mistake by the ATXI selection panel. They had unusual fixation in some cases with picking the "best keeper", instead of considering the historical strength of each team to determine whether a pure keeper or keeper-batsman would a better choice.

Similar they wanted 5-bowlers for every team, which for example left the Sri Lanka ATXI very unbalanced.

 

[sifter132]

Anyone else concerned by this??
India v Australia, 1st Test, Chennai : Selective watering the secret to 'ugly' pitch | Cricket News | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

I agree with the groundsman: the final result of the pitch was good. The match went into the 5th day, batsmen made runs and a result was had. So I'll agree it was a good pitch.

But...to me the idea of watering certain parts of the pitch, especially tactically as he admits later on, is something I'm not too comfortable with. I like some homefield advantage, but this seems to be taking it a little bit further than I'm comfortable with. See how he dealt with Warne in 98:

Parthasarathy had used the method of selective watering back in 1998 when Australia lost to India by 179 runs. Warne, who frequently bowled round-the-wicket line during that series, struggled to make an impact as Sachin Tendulkar took the attack to him.

"I kept the square patches outside the leg stump, on either side of the wicket, really hard. It was difficult to get turn from that part as there would be no rough there."
- See more at: India v Australia, 1st Test, Chennai : Selective watering the secret to 'ugly' pitch | Cricket News | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

I'd be interested to see what the ICC think about this, and how it conforms with their pitch preparation guidelines.

 

[Sedition]

And the BCCI had the nerve to accuse us of doctoring pitches during our whitewash of India We all know that now they're 1 up, the rest of the tracks are going to be complete roads and it will take a Pakistan-esque collapse to force a result in any of the remaining tests.

 

[puddleduck]

The BCCI/Indian cricket team are a bit of a joke everywhere in the world except India though, hardly surprising news

Much like how a serial cheater often accuses their partner of cheating (I've seen an episode of Jeremy Kyle, so I'm pretty sure that makes me an expert), the BCCI was quick to accuse Australia because they themselves are already guilty

Trollolololol trollololol... I hope most people use the default settings ha

 

[SaiSrini]

Anyone else concerned by this??
India v Australia, 1st Test, Chennai : Selective watering the secret to 'ugly' pitch | Cricket News | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

I agree with the groundsman: the final result of the pitch was good. The match went into the 5th day, batsmen made runs and a result was had. So I'll agree it was a good pitch.

But...to me the idea of watering certain parts of the pitch, especially tactically as he admits later on, is something I'm not too comfortable with. I like some homefield advantage, but this seems to be taking it a little bit further than I'm comfortable with. See how he dealt with Warne in 98:


I'd be interested to see what the ICC think about this, and how it conforms with their pitch preparation guidelines.

I don't remember too much of that 1998 match except for Sachin's innings (checking info out on Cricinfo). But both teams played on the same wicket. Where did the Indian spinners in that game get their wickets from? Kumble and Raju both got 4 and 3 wkts in both innings respectively. Warne and Gavin Robertson got 4 wickets apiece in the first innings. How come did the Aussie spinners become so ineffective in that second innings whereas just after that innings, India returned back to picking wickets off that same pitch again? Its just that Australia didn't have an answer to the Tendulkar storm that innings. If Warne was a leggie, Robertson was an offie. For India, Kumble was a leggie (not in the league of Warne) and Raju was a left armer. And Warne took wickets in the first innings. How can a curator change a pitch so much to render Warne ineffective in the 2nd innings?

Preparing pitches to suit spinners (which is the home team's strength) has been happening for decades now. And that makes test cricket exciting. I don't see how this tactic by the Chennai curator is against any spirit of the game. Australia can make fast and bouncy wickets in their country, England can do the same, India can create spinning wickets as per the home team's strength. But to say that the curator specifically tried to take Warne out of the game is IMHO too far to say!

 

[Sedition]

The BCCI/Indian cricket team are a bit of a joke everywhere in the world except India though, hardly surprising news

Much like how a serial cheater often accuses their partner of cheating (I've seen an episode of Jeremy Kyle, so I'm pretty sure that makes me an expert), the BCCI was quick to accuse Australia because they themselves are already guilty

Trollolololol trollololol... I hope most people use the default settings ha

Quite right about a guilty conscience leading to such paranoia. Reminds me a lot of Lance Armstrong. It's not cheating if you convince yourself that everyone else is doing it and you're just leveling the playing field.

There's a difference between maintaining a pitch's natural tendencies and simply keeping it at international standard, compared to specifically targeting areas to deteriorate or hold firm based on the wishes of the board that's paying you.

It should be enough of an advantage for the home team when the other has to travel across the world, surrounded by security everywhere they go because of rabid fans and terrorist threats, and can't even experience the local cuisine without damaging the doulton for the next week or two.

Won't be the first time that we overcome such overwhelming odds though and it can be argued that all things being fair, it's too advantageously poised for the Aussies anyway.

 

[Cricketman]

There has been so much whining in this thread from Australian fans. Everyone knows the challenges of touring India - the conditions are not new to anyone. I don't even think the Australian management is complaining as much as some of the members here.

 

[midgetwars]

Bird not coming back.

The Aussie bowling curse.

Let's see who has been injured in the past few years... EVERYONE that has bowled for Australia.

 

[aussie1st]

I don't even remember Bird being injured since making his debut, suddenly goes into the Aussie setup and is instantly injured. SOS SOK.

 

[Dennis Mennis]

There has been so much whining in this thread from Australian fans. Everyone knows the challenges of touring India - the conditions are not new to anyone. I don't even think the Australian management is complaining as much as some of the members here.

Yep, and the whingeing on Cricinfo is even worse. Typical Australian mentality, they can't lose because they weren't good, there has to be some other dark and sinister reason, and it's usually because their opponents were cheating.

 

[angryangy]

I don't even remember Bird being injured since making his debut, suddenly goes into the Aussie setup and is instantly injured. SOS SOK.

Less than 20 first class games though; 3 fewer than Pattinson. It's his second season and he didn't have much pace last season.

 

[sifter132]

There has been so much whining in this thread from Australian fans. Everyone knows the challenges of touring India - the conditions are not new to anyone. I don't even think the Australian management is complaining as much as some of the members here.

I'm only half whinging :P and not about this last Test. Australia have nothing to complain about. I think the pitch for this Test was a decent one, and held up pretty well. And it certainly wasn't a surprise that ambushed Australia somehow, they just couldn't use it as well - with bat or ball.

But I don't like the tactic of only watering the part of the pitch that is most helpful for your team. I hadn't heard of that happening before, and it's got me a bit concerned, 'tis all. For example, you don't see football/soccer teams carving big divots on the edge of their home field if the are playing a team with good wingers.

I don't remember too much of that 1998 match except for Sachin's innings (checking info out on Cricinfo). But both teams played on the same wicket. Where did the Indian spinners in that game get their wickets from? Kumble and Raju both got 4 and 3 wkts in both innings respectively. Warne and Gavin Robertson got 4 wickets apiece in the first innings. How come did the Aussie spinners become so ineffective in that second innings whereas just after that innings, India returned back to picking wickets off that same pitch again? Its just that Australia didn't have an answer to the Tendulkar storm that innings. If Warne was a leggie, Robertson was an offie. For India, Kumble was a leggie (not in the league of Warne) and Raju was a left armer. And Warne took wickets in the first innings. How can a curator change a pitch so much to render Warne ineffective in the 2nd innings?

Yes, the result of that match speaks otherwise. Especially since Raju at least would have bowled over the wicket into the rough outside leg. Not sure Kumble would have done it as much.

 

[Sedition]

As SaiSrini and Cricketman have pointed out, this kind of pitch doctoring has been going on in India for decades. Obviously the BCCI and their fanboys have missed the point of what home ground advantage means, in that it's actually something that happens naturally because the touring side is out of their comfort zone and it isn't a perceived right to tamper with the pitches or any other backdoor dealings.

The worst part for me, is that the curator was actually proud of himself for doing it. Obviously some twisted ethics from Mr. Parthasarathy. To not only admit to doing it, but bragging about how he'd done the same thing back in '99 is laughable, and didn't even have the guts to admit what he'd done when asked by Warney at the time.

Hopefully the curator at Hyderabad doesn't embarrass himself in this fashion and actually prepares something that could be deemed an international standard wicket.

 

[icyman]

The BCCI/Indian cricket team are a bit of a joke everywhere in the world except India though, hardly surprising news

You know, they have threatened to pull out of the RSA tour if Haroon Lorgat is elected as CSA's CEO. Cannot find the link, but shall post it soon enough. Such kind of behaviour is not going to go down well with the Indian masses as well.

 

[Epic]

But I don't like the tactic of only watering the part of the pitch that is most helpful for your team. I hadn't heard of that happening before, and it's got me a bit concerned, 'tis all. For example, you don't see football/soccer teams carving big divots on the edge of their home field if the are playing a team with good wingers.

You seriously need to watch more Italian football man.

Oh, the irony!

Yes, the result of that match speaks otherwise. Especially since Raju at least would have bowled over the wicket into the rough outside leg. Not sure Kumble would have done it as much.

This was going to be my point...

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Either ways, I've always been and still am strongly against home advantage(other than the crowd) of any sort for any team, the sooner the ICC takeover, the better.