Australia tour of India (Feb '17/Mar '17)

[Satan666]

Disappointing with an Indian win here! All is not loss and come the 3rd test Aus will go 2-1!

 

[Satan666]

One of the most satisfying wins in recent times! Not quite Kolkata 2001'ish, but the mind hankers back to that game for the similar emotions. In a series that India were expected to steamroll the Aussies into submission, Australia caused a huge upset in Pune and after Day 1 of this test match, they had one hand firmly on the BG trophy and their other hand had all but 1-2 fingers on it. To come back from that position and turn it upside down feels very very very special. Kudos to the superb fightback mounted by Chet and Jinx (Pujara and Rahane). Both of them battled inconsistent form (Rahane was battling poor form) to give India the confidence back and the mindset to go for the kill. We were all expecting India to collapse in the 3rd innings because India currently is a team where if you hurt them bad, it will take them a very long time to shrug off that pain. That was the reason behind all that pessimism that came from Indian fans. The golden era (the era of Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Laxman) handled pain better and came back faster out of it. These current guys are relatively not as tough yet, most likely they will get there.

Feels way better. Now onto Ranchi. I should not be saying much here, but from here on in an ideal scenario, India SHOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE!! But I am not betting on it. But really really hope the pitch (the most controversial aspect, as always) is way better in Ranchi.

*will never be as tough

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Now you understand why I was so certain than Australia would lose, haha. Firstly, Ashwin is an absolute delight to watch, irrespective of who you're supporting. For me, he's the best cricketer on the planet. He's the best bowler too but his intelligence and ability to contribute with the bat makes him the ideal cricketer for your team. I'm not really surprised Australia lost, the series will probably finish 3-1 to India which is quite a big achievement for Australia considering how bad the squad is.

What baffles me however is the continued selection of Mitchell Marsh. Does he bat? No. Does he bowl? No. What is the point of playing him?! By playing him, Australia are conceding an advantage before the game has even started.

Coming to the entire Review-gate, it's quite sad to see. Of course, it is not something to be condoned. The Australian team should be given a fine and a warning. But if you think about it, it can be legalised in the future and made into a pretty useful tool. Compared to other sports, cricket is a game where the coaching staff can't really influence the outcome of a game. This gives an opportunity to rectify it and prevent wastage of reviews. Imagine a team wrongly loses 2 reviews on umpire call decisions and then is left without a review to reverse a howler. Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of the DRS system? Just my two cents.

 

[SaiSrini]

DRS was supposed to prevent howlers that led to big controversies. Well nothing has changed sadly! The theory of 'no system is perfect' is BS. DRS was primarily meant to eliminate howlers, but with its restrictions on time and asking players to take the decision whether to use it or not, it has become a joke. I'm happy Sachin, Dhoni and co ensured they never really played much with DRS.

All the benefits of improved percentage of good decisions is more than negated by the howlers continuing with DRS. Saving it for later, not able to use it when you need, not able to rely on non striker, forcing you to tap into the negative side of your mind by breaking protocols, it's endless. DRS is a pain

 

[Fake Passport]

What an absolute joke!
And you're talking from experience? I respect whatever cricket you've played but not international cricket! You're extremely naive if you believe the players don't know the 'rules' to play by. They probably would tell you the clause and the section number as well, if you ask me.

Yes - I'm an umpire who has umpired international teams on numerous occasions for over 6 years. Normally handle lower than that I freely admit. But I'm more than happy to give you some information. Just in the last season some of the notable ones:

- A former team captain of an ICC level team challenged me on the Leg-Byes off non-shot rule.
- Another player at ICC level called me blind after calling No Ball + Byes when it hit the legs.
- A player who's played first class level in their country didn't know rubbing the ball on the ground is against the laws (called it using a natural substance)

But, to be fair, my personal experience is a small sample. I might have had a weird few seasons, or just been really unlucky in the players I've had, or I could be a sucky umpire. So to help eliminate that, Ill say that I do academic research into the relationship between players and umpires, the skills of the umpires and the like. So lets use some quantifiable information. Not published yet but keep your eye on international sports journals and you might see it pop up.

• 26% of club captains at a seniorish level in a particular country were able to name the 10 methods of dismissal in cricket.
• 0% were able to name everything that needs to be discussed at or before the toss.
• ~70% said they would like more training in the laws.

etc etc.

Players learn to play the game from playing. On the whole, as an example, they learn the technicalities of the LBW rule from practical experience rather than sitting down with the laws book and reading Law 36. Not to say that their aren't players out there that don't read the laws, but I don't think the above point is 'naive', its only natural. Captains especially have so much to deal with, all their own stuff and that of the team that the amount of time that they would have compared to a player is that far diminished.

Umpires, on the other hand, especially at the moment tend to learn the laws 'rote'. Most training is literally "Law 1 says ... Law 2 says ... Law 3 says". (I take issue with this, but its true) Usually on top of having played to some level or another (I'm yet to meet an umpire who had no idea of cricket at all before umpiring). Umpires hence tend to learn all the technicalities really well (even if they cant quote chapter and verse, theyll be sure its in there somewhere). Ask any player that's become a half decent umpire if they knew about all the laws, rules etc and what being an umpire entails and often its a case of "I had no idea". You only have to look on Youtube for things like Obstructing the field, hit wicket etc to see that it doesn't take much to make the players confused or unsure.

And that is why independent, neutral umpires exist. Players are experts in playing the game and umpires are experts in the rules and applying them. If players genuinely, on the whole, knew the laws, as you say 'clause and section number' then they would probably be so far in front of the 'textbook' knowledge of umpires that they would prefer to umpire themselves and the need to umpires historically probably wouldn't have existed to any sort of degree that it did.

Its no different from modern society. I dare say everyone on this forum functions in society governed by laws, rules and regulations of one sort or another. We get by knowing that killing someone (or stealing, or fraud, or whatever) is not above board, but most people wouldn't be able to cite the law prohibiting it, but we've learnt it through functioning in society. If we step out of line, we have the police and the whole court system, who are experts in the law, to take whatever action is appropriate.

As I said in my post, I think Smith should have a visit to the match referee over that incident. Again as I said (twice) ignorance of rules is no excuse. However I stand by the basis of my post, that players know the game fundamentally from playing it and don't really know the intricacies and that if you forced captains to know the laws chapter and verse then you would have entirely the wrong people captaining cricket teams (at all levels) as I dare say the people that have the ability to learn the laws to that extent are not necessarily the ones that are going to make effective captains.

You're right in that I didn't call him a cheat or make a determination as to whether it was deliberate or not. In my eyes it doesn't matter (ignorance is not an excuse - deliberate or not - rules are rules) This is me talking personally, but I take umpiring seriously enough that I don't pass judgement on these things even in matches I have no duties in, as I find it then easier to keep emotions etc out of it when I am on the field. To the point that I support teams that wear red, mainly because my 3yo daughter has told me that's who I support because 'Red is my favorite color'. My thought process with that is "Steve Smith has breached the rules - He should go to the match referee".

Anyway, no hard feelings, but thats where Im coming from...

 

[Rehan_24]

Congrats to the Indian Team on a very fine victory. Test cricket at its best. Kohli is very charged up Cheating? Kohli's press conference inference | cricket.com.au

Really impressed with his confidence, his trust on his team-mates and this is the way to collide head one with a mentally strong team like Australia. This guy has some aggression on the field and thats his style and attitude to battle on the ground but he talks sense and logic off the field as well. His punchline is "results are there for you to see, I dont want to comment further"

Thats a what a good captain can do for his team. Win matches from an almost impossible situation and putting spirit in your team when it is about to die on the field. Great work done by him and the entire team.

 

[zwarrior]

 

[Aalay]

Alright, that was a pretty solid victory for the team. The intent that I saw in the first session on the second day morning session was amazing to watch. We didn't show that intent in Pune and it was good to see that team was showing some fight even though we didn't score enough runs in the first inning. Rahul is probably the only batsman in our team who is in form right now. However, it was good to see Pujara and Rahane grind it out and make some much needed runs for the team as well as for their own form. Jadeja was very good throughout this test match with the ball. Umesh as he has been throughout the season was amazing and Ishant supported him well. Abhinav Mukund looked very shaky as an opener against Starc's pace and that is definitely not a good sign.

On the whole DRS issue, it was very clear that Smith looked at the dressing room to ask if he should review it or not and he also admitted that he did wrong. However, if this has been happening since the first day as suggested by Kohli than there should definitely be some action taken against them. The worst part is when I see tweets like this from former Australian player.

Instead of accepting that what they did was a mistake, they rather tweet absolute nonsense like this. I can't even imagine how much media coverage this would have got if Kohli or India had done something like this.

 

[namin96]

Congrats to the Indian Team on a very fine victory. Test cricket at its best. Kohli is very charged up Cheating? Kohli's press conference inference | cricket.com.au

Really impressed with his confidence, his trust on his team-mates and this is the way to collide head one with a mentally strong team like Australia. This guy has some aggression on the field and thats his style and attitude to battle on the ground but he talks sense and logic off the field as well. His punchline is "results are there for you to see, I dont want to comment further"

Thats a what a good captain can do for his team. Win matches from an almost impossible situation and putting spirit in your team when it is about to die on the field. Great work done by him and the entire team.

He didn't contribute with the bat but his captaincy and leadership were huge for us in this game. That 2nd day whatever he said to them really changed it for us.

 

[namin96]

He's replying to Ian Healy's 'I'm losing respect for Kohli' jibe.

Ian Healy famously was furious after being given out wrongly at the Centurion. I've always said Heals is the best WK I've ever seen, but he's an absolute turd at calling cricket matches and quite a hypocrite.

What an idiot seriously, just a terrible hypocrite. They freaking use sledging everytime as they invented it. So when kohli uses it against them it's wrong. What logic. Just worry about your own captain who looks up to the support staff to ask if he should review or not. Australia are historically cheaters, I can go on all day about that Sydney 2008 test.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Yes - I'm an umpire who has umpired international teams on numerous occasions for over 6 years. Normally handle lower than that I freely admit. But I'm more than happy to give you some information. Just in the last season some of the notable ones:

- A former team captain of an ICC level team challenged me on the Leg-Byes off non-shot rule.
- Another player at ICC level called me blind after calling No Ball + Byes when it hit the legs.
- A player who's played first class level in their country didn't know rubbing the ball on the ground is against the laws (called it using a natural substance)

But, to be fair, my personal experience is a small sample. I might have had a weird few seasons, or just been really unlucky in the players I've had, or I could be a sucky umpire. So to help eliminate that, Ill say that I do academic research into the relationship between players and umpires, the skills of the umpires and the like. So lets use some quantifiable information. Not published yet but keep your eye on international sports journals and you might see it pop up.

• 26% of club captains at a seniorish level in a particular country were able to name the 10 methods of dismissal in cricket.
• 0% were able to name everything that needs to be discussed at or before the toss.
• ~70% said they would like more training in the laws.

etc etc.

Players learn to play the game from playing. On the whole, as an example, they learn the technicalities of the LBW rule from practical experience rather than sitting down with the laws book and reading Law 36. Not to say that their aren't players out there that don't read the laws, but I don't think the above point is 'naive', its only natural. Captains especially have so much to deal with, all their own stuff and that of the team that the amount of time that they would have compared to a player is that far diminished.

Umpires, on the other hand, especially at the moment tend to learn the laws 'rote'. Most training is literally "Law 1 says ... Law 2 says ... Law 3 says". (I take issue with this, but its true) Usually on top of having played to some level or another (I'm yet to meet an umpire who had no idea of cricket at all before umpiring). Umpires hence tend to learn all the technicalities really well (even if they cant quote chapter and verse, theyll be sure its in there somewhere). Ask any player that's become a half decent umpire if they knew about all the laws, rules etc and what being an umpire entails and often its a case of "I had no idea". You only have to look on Youtube for things like Obstructing the field, hit wicket etc to see that it doesn't take much to make the players confused or unsure.

And that is why independent, neutral umpires exist. Players are experts in playing the game and umpires are experts in the rules and applying them. If players genuinely, on the whole, knew the laws, as you say 'clause and section number' then they would probably be so far in front of the 'textbook' knowledge of umpires that they would prefer to umpire themselves and the need to umpires historically probably wouldn't have existed to any sort of degree that it did.

Its no different from modern society. I dare say everyone on this forum functions in society governed by laws, rules and regulations of one sort or another. We get by knowing that killing someone (or stealing, or fraud, or whatever) is not above board, but most people wouldn't be able to cite the law prohibiting it, but we've learnt it through functioning in society. If we step out of line, we have the police and the whole court system, who are experts in the law, to take whatever action is appropriate.

As I said in my post, I think Smith should have a visit to the match referee over that incident. Again as I said (twice) ignorance of rules is no excuse. However I stand by the basis of my post, that players know the game fundamentally from playing it and don't really know the intricacies and that if you forced captains to know the laws chapter and verse then you would have entirely the wrong people captaining cricket teams (at all levels) as I dare say the people that have the ability to learn the laws to that extent are not necessarily the ones that are going to make effective captains.

You're right in that I didn't call him a cheat or make a determination as to whether it was deliberate or not. In my eyes it doesn't matter (ignorance is not an excuse - deliberate or not - rules are rules) This is me talking personally, but I take umpiring seriously enough that I don't pass judgement on these things even in matches I have no duties in, as I find it then easier to keep emotions etc out of it when I am on the field. To the point that I support teams that wear red, mainly because my 3yo daughter has told me that's who I support because 'Red is my favorite color'. My thought process with that is "Steve Smith has breached the rules - He should go to the match referee".

Anyway, no hard feelings, but thats where Im coming from...

First of all, excellent post. I don't/didn't intend to question your credibility or experience and I don't know your name but you must be good at your job considering the amount of passion you have for it.

However, now I've cooled down and as you said I've taken the emotion out of it and I still stand by what I said. The Aussies CHEATED. Plain and simple. Your post, while excellent is irrelevant in context now because Steve Smith has contradicted himself in his own press conference. Let me explain-

Brain Fade- Given out LBW, tried to sneak in an unfair advantage by trying to get a cue from the dressing room on whether to review the decision or not. Apologised to all and sundry- Let's move on!

Planned tactical cheating- Let's just all try to try get a cue on decisions from the dressing room when it comes to DRS as they have the benefit of more eyes on monitors.

To tell it in another way, there's a vast difference in murdering someone in a fit of rage and murdering someone by coldly plotting it over a period of time.

I don't see how this is any different from ball tampering? It's a law and the law has been broken!

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Alright, that was a pretty solid victory for the team. The intent that I saw in the first session on the second day morning session was amazing to watch. We didn't show that intent in Pune and it was good to see that team was showing some fight even though we didn't score enough runs in the first inning. Rahul is probably the only batsman in our team who is in form right now. However, it was good to see Pujara and Rahane grind it out and make some much needed runs for the team as well as for their own form. Jadeja was very good throughout this test match with the ball. Umesh as he has been throughout the season was amazing and Ishant supported him well. Abhinav Mukund looked very shaky as an opener against Starc's pace and that is definitely not a good sign.

On the whole DRS issue, it was very clear that Smith looked at the dressing room to ask if he should review it or not and he also admitted that he did wrong. However, if this has been happening since the first day as suggested by Kohli than there should definitely be some action taken against them. The worst part is when I see tweets like this from former Australian player.

Instead of accepting that what they did was a mistake, they rather tweet absolute nonsense like this. I can't even imagine how much media coverage this would have got if Kohli or India had done something like this.

They're absolute hypocrites. Most of them!

They can't stand losing and as soon as they're caught with their trousers down, they begin the whine fest. Just take this forum for example- There are a couple of nice Aussies here, but there were a few obnoxious ones as well when they were bossing the game. Where are they today?

 

[CerealKiller]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=938534452916308

 

[.Jambo.]

It was a great game and although I think at times Kohli went a bit over the top in the field I am massively disappointed with Smith. He should know better than looking to the sheds for a helping hand while deciding to review and he pretty much admitted cheating in the press conference. It will be interesting to see what the umpires make of it all in the match report because if he or any of the players have been receiving help out there, it will be curtains for a few players and certainly the management team.

I've always thought it would be a matter of time until teams start abusing the DRS from the dressing rooms. I though it would be a bit more covert (say a radio controlled mechanism on their legs or something) rather than just gazing at the balcony waiting for an indication. Bloody ugly situation anyway, and a real shame it's taking the focus away from a great game and a fantastic series.

 

[Rehan_24]

I don't think so any long paragraphs justify what was done by Aussie Skipper and good thing is that he accepted that he shouldn't have done that. If it was happening for the past 3 days then action should be taken atleast some fine. There shouldn't be discrimination among teams and players and that is good for the game.

Aussie experts grilling is understandable because they don't have a habit of losing when they loose a game, they loose their temper as well. It has been history with them so you guys have to bear with that and counter that and Virat is doing a great job. I expected that Virat will realize the brain fade logic but he didn't show any mercy to that as well lol.... He was quite pumped up with the victory and played an aggressive mind game.

I am all for aggression on the field from a captain but the actions must not be disgraceful. You can show your fists and celebrate and be hot-tempered in your celebrations as much as your want. Australia has done that all throughout. If Some other team is doing it now when it is in a commanding position among world cricket teams these days. Then you have to bear that as well and strive to snatch that position with your performance on the ground.