The Greatest ODI Batsman: Tendulkar vs Richards

[ZoraxDoom]

Hmm. Interesting. Viv was in the top 3 for 3 5-year blocks, but Sachin only two.


Makes an interesting comparison with my earlier analysis. Maybe I should analyze Viv's career in the same way as I did Sachin's, to see how that works out.

 

[Robelinda]

Man, all the guys listed are great, I really hate comparison threads so much. It really doesnt matter who is rated best when its so close. Just sit back and enjoy the cricket.

One thing i'll say though is that its silly for guys to talk about players they have never seen play, like Viv. You cannot fathom his style of play from a few highlights videos on you tube.

Wisden rates Viv's WC final ton as the best of all time too.

 

[drainpipe32]

This poll was always going to be loaded in favour of Tendulkar. He's high profile at the moment, some voters won't have even seen Richards bat and most Asians will vote in kind anyway. So Richards is doing well considering what he is up against

And most Aussies will vote again him!

 

[aditya123]

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Player  	Span  	Mat  	Inns  	NO  	RunsDescending  	HS  	Ave  	BF  	SR  	100  	50  	0  	4s  	6s  	
RT Ponting (Aus/ICC) 	2000-2010 	254 	245 	25 	9687 	164 	44.03 	11463 	84.50 	24 	61 	13 	914 	136 	investigate this query
SR Tendulkar (India) 	2000-2010 	213 	209 	19 	9027 	200* 	47.51 	10526 	85.75 	22 	49 	8 	1073 	74 	investigate this query
Mohammad Yousuf (Asia/Pak) 	2000-2010 	250 	239 	34 	8575 	141* 	41.82 	11387 	75.30 	13 	57 	13 	697 	78 	investigate this query
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL) 	2000-2009 	246 	242 	10 	8305 	189 	35.79 	9065 	91.61 	21 	35 	20 	961 	159 	investigate this query
KC Sangakkara (Asia/ICC/SL) 	2000-2010 	267 	250 	27 	8152 	138* 	36.55 	10840 	75.20 	10 	55 	9 	809 	36 	investigate this query

The top 5 batsmen in ODIs from Jan 1st 2000 till now.


Tendulkar is second to Ponting in runs, centuries and fifties. But that is understandable, as he has played 36 less innings. His average and strike rate are better than Ponting's, and his innings per 100 (9.5) is less than Ponting's too (10.2).

I think that saying Tendulkar was the best ODI batsman of his era is pretty fair. Although he wasn't the standout best batsman as Ponting is a very close second, unlike Viv who was head and shoulders above everyone.

But Ponting apart, no one comes close. No one else has 9000 runs in ODIs in the last decade, and these two have the best average out of the Top 5 (Although Kallis at 6 in terms of runs scored averages 47.71) and the best strike rate barring Jayasuriya.

Infact, taking the top 20 names, only Kallis (47.71), MSD (51.13), Hayden (45.32) and Chanderpaul (44.99) have averages over 44. They are positioned 6th, 20th, 17th and 16th in terms of runs scored respectively.

As for strike rate, only 5 in the top 10 have SRs over 80 in ODIs - Gayle, Yuvi, Jayasuriya and these 2. And Gayle and Yuvi only have 7000 odd runs each, with 17 tons between them, less than either Sachin or Ponting individually.

I was tempted to calculate the innings-per-century ration for every batsman in the top 20 to see if Sachin and Ponting are exceptional there too, but don't really have the time. Maybe someone else could do it.


So if you take Ponting as another freakishly gifted batsman who happened to be in the same era as Sachin (Like Murali with Warne), and compare them to the rest, no one really comes close. Sachin and Ponting are heads and shoulder above everyone else in ODIs in their eras.

And what's more, Sachin has been the best of the two.

So saying that Viv was uncomparable in his era while Sachin was is unfair. Because Sachin was only comparable to one other batsman in his era - Ponting. Excluding him, no one came close.



And for a fun fact, if I take Sachin's 'Era' as the last 15 years, 1st Jan 1995 - present day, you get this breakdown:

Player  	Span  	Mat  	Inns  	NO  	RunsDescending  	HS  	Ave  	BF  	SR  	100  	50  	0  	
SR Tendulkar (India) 	1995-2010 	352 	344 	31 	14830 	200* 	47.38 	16913 	87.68 	43 	72 	14 	investigate this query
RT Ponting (Aus/ICC) 	1995-2010 	345 	336 	37 	12895 	164 	43.12 	15976 	80.71 	29 	78 	19 	investigate this query
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL) 	1995-2009 	370 	365 	16 	12267 	189 	35.14 	13140 	93.35 	27 	62 	27 	investigate this query
SC Ganguly (Asia/India) 	1996-2007 	310 	299 	23 	11360 	183 	41.15 	15403 	73.75 	22 	72 	16 	investigate this query
R Dravid (Asia/ICC/India) 	1996-2009 	339 	313 	40 	10765 	153 	39.43 	15124 	71.17 	12 	82 	13 	investigate this query
JH Kallis (Afr/ICC/SA) 	1996-2010 	298 	284 	52 	10613 	139 	45.74 	14657 	72.40 	17 	75 	15 	investigate this query
Mohammad Yousuf (Asia/Pak) 	1998-2010 	282 	267 	40 	9624 	141* 	42.39 	12805 	75.15 	15 	64 	15 	investigate this query
AC Gilchrist (Aus/ICC) 	1996-2008 	287 	279 	11 	9619 	172 	35.89 	9922 	96.94 	16 	55 	19 	investigate this query
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Asia/Pak) 	1995-2007 	299 	273 	42 	9132 	123 	39.53 	12237 	74.62 	7 	64 	17 	investigate this query
DPMD Jayawardene (Asia/SL) 	1998-2010 	317 	298 	30 	8702 	128 	32.47 	11293 	77.05 	12 	52 	24 	investigate this query

Sachin is the leading runscorer, has the best average out of the top 10 and has the third highest strike rate after Gilly and Jayasuriya.

And the inning's per century ratio for each of the top 10:

Sachin - 344/43 = 8
Ponting - 336/29 = 11.59
Jayasuriya - 365/27 = 13.52
Ganguly - 299/22 = 13.59
Dravid - 313/12 = 26.08
Kallis - 284/17 = 16.7
Yousuf - 267/15 = 17.8
Gilly - 279/16 = 17.4
Inzy - 273/7 = 39
Jayawaradene - 24.8


I think that list speaks for itself.

So whether or not you take the innings-per-century ratio into account, Sachin is very easily the best batsman of the last 15 years. His era.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com


Hopefully that argument can end now.

End of Thread.

 

[ballers101]

and Gazza is the most ridiculous topic changer when not needed any way.
I just can't understand why he inserts Ponting( or any australian great) everywhere when not needed. It was Tendulkar vs Richard's not Tendulkar vs Ponting. and for you kind information Zoraxdoom has answered you quite well.
and for your first comment, your views and comments are also not needed.


oh my god your reading skills are quite good.
You dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
look at yourself and then post or you'll end up making fun of yourself.

No, actually your wrong I checked many of your previous posts and you are always going off topic. When the whole Sachin not being the best of his era you weren't talking about Sachin Vs Richards you were talking about Sachin Vs Everyone else. Hahaha "YOU DUMB!".

Okay so, I personally think Tendulkar is better based on several different reasons, however I can see how Richards is a very good candidate for a better batsmen. The problem is I think you can't compare the two, they played in two totally different eras, and Tendulkar played so many more matches.

The only way to compare each other would be to have them both playing around the same time and they would have played around the same amount of matches. Not a 250 match difference lol.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Definitely hard to compare the two, but it is a really good one. Ponting vs. Tendulkar, Warne vs. Murali, Viv vs. Sachin for ODIs. There are just so many variables, part of what makes it a good discussion.


If you discuss it with an open mind, it is an interesting way to find the strengths and flaws, no matter how minute, of each player. And you might sometime stumble across some stats or records which settle who the better one is.

But unfortunately all the flaming and narrow mindedness has meant that no one is discussing this open to the possibility that either of these players could be better.

I rated Sachin above Viv before, and still do, but this thread has made me rate Viv a lot, lot higher. Viv's superior stats, and how much better he was than anyone else in his 'era' certainly makes him very worthy of the title of the best ODI batsman ever. But I stick with Sachin for his longevity.

I actually did a Statsguru analysis of Viv and found some interesting info which shows he wasn't exactly as dominating in his era as he is being made out to be. I'll post it up here sometime.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

And to think people are in doubt over whether or not this is the next Golden Era.

 

[sifter132]

One thing i'll say though is that its silly for guys to talk about players they have never seen play, like Viv. You cannot fathom his style of play from a few highlights videos on you tube.

Wisden rates Viv's WC final ton as the best of all time too.

That's true to an extent. I was only a young lad of 6 on Viv's last tour of Aus. I don't remember much of the ins and outs of his play, but I DO remember the way he was held in such high esteem by the commentators and that being backed up by members of my cricket loving family who also hailed Viv as an awesome player. And of course since then I've read plenty of articles, a few books etc. that all espouse Viv's greatness.

It's rare that you can get the whole picture with your own eyes only since most people only see a fraction of a players career. So you must rely on other reports to round out your impressions. Otherwise based on my eyes only, I'd think Inzy sucked because 90% of the times I saw him play he was out LBW early or that Daryl Cullinan was a high school player at best, but both guys were certainly much better than that.

Hmm. Interesting. Viv was in the top 3 for 3 5-year blocks, but Sachin only two.

Makes an interesting comparison with my earlier analysis. Maybe I should analyze Viv's career in the same way as I did Sachin's, to see how that works out.

Actually I was impressed by Sachin in that analysis. I thought he'd be a little more behind in his first and last 5 year blocks, but the man really has been at least up with the best throughout his 20 years. I voted Viv originally, but now I'd bring Sachin right up with him and if a gun were at my head - I might even pick SRT.

 

[ballers101]

That's true to an extent. I was only a young lad of 6 on Viv's last tour of Aus. I don't remember much of the ins and outs of his play, but I DO remember the way he was held in such high esteem by the commentators and that being backed up by members of my cricket loving family who also hailed Viv as an awesome player. And of course since then I've read plenty of articles, a few books etc. that all espouse Viv's greatness.

It's rare that you can get the whole picture with your own eyes only since most people only see a fraction of a players career. So you must rely on other reports to round out your impressions. Otherwise based on my eyes only, I'd think Inzy sucked because 90% of the times I saw him play he was out LBW early or that Daryl Cullinan was a high school player at best, but both guys were certainly much better than that.

Actually I was impressed by Sachin in that analysis. I thought he'd be a little more behind in his first and last 5 year blocks, but the man really has been at least up with the best throughout his 20 years. I voted Viv originally, but now I'd bring Sachin right up with him and if a gun were at my head - I might even pick SRT.

Exactly, you could go either way Sachin or Richards and you would have great reasons to back up both of them. That's why I say you can't compare the two they played in such different time periods therefore, you can't neccessarily prove with direct evidence who is better you can only use circumstantial to prove your case.

 

[Dare]

End of Thread.

O really? Miss the part that say "last 15 years?

 

[aditya123]

O really? Miss the part that say "last 15 years?

15 years is still a pretty long duration, is`nt it?

aditya123 added 16 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Exactly, you could go either way Sachin or Richards and you would have great reasons to back up both of them. That's why I say you can't compare the two they played in such different time periods therefore, you can't neccessarily prove with direct evidence who is better you can only use circumstantial to prove your case.

Totally agree with that. However, when someone here said, Tendulkar is`nt even the best ODI batsman of his era, it sounded misinformed.

 

[Dare]

15 years is still a pretty long duration, is`nt it?

Where does that list compare him with Viv? Or say that he was better then Viv for the thread to end.

Dare added 10 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

However, when someone here said, Tendulkar is`nt even the best ODI batsman of his era, it sounded misinformed.

Rob is probably the only guy in this thread that has seen both men bat live so he is hardly misinformed.

 

[drainpipe32]

Sigh, and I thought we were over comparison threads...

 

[ballers101]

Rob is probably the only guy in this thread that has seen both men bat live so he is hardly misinformed.

Doesn't mean anything if he saw Tendulkar and Richards play...he said that "Tendulkar isn't even close to the best batsmen of the era." It has nothing to do with Richards at all actually. He has his opinion on the matter and I can respect that, the thing is that he said that Sachin isn't even close. That's not debatable at all, Sachin has proven to be one of the best batsmen of this era and I think it may not be a debate anymore, Sachin is easily the best batsmen of the era.

I wouldn't say misinformed, maybe just wrong in this case.

 

[drainpipe32]

Did you ever stop to think maybe the joke is on you?