Australia's Tour Of India - 2008

[sifter132]

Gambhir claimed he didn't elbow him. Since when does the match referee know what is physically going on inside his body? With Zidane it was blatantly obvious but with Gambhir it wasn't

Why then did Gambhir plead GUILTY???????????

As for the match referee: It is FAR easier for a match referee to SEE physical contact than to GUESS what is being said out on the field and whether it goes with the spirit of cricket or not. Chris Broad is not on the field, he watches TV closeup replays like the rest of us and he relies on the reports of the umpires for stuff like Watson's conduct. Yet he can see with his own 2 eyes that Gambhir hung his elbow out, it doesn't matter that the elbow didn't break any bones with it's force - it's the principle... Grow up :

 

[sohum]

Watson wasn't at fault for anything though. :

He was. You don't see too many other bowlers taunting the batsmen multiple times an over. For example, Johnson, Lee and Clark. While Johnson and Lee have a dig sometimes, they don't do it over and over again. And Clark keeps to himself--and was clearly the best bowler on show for Australia.

Plenty of players sledge batsman, but don't see the majority of International cricketers going up and thumping the guy who is sledging him. Do you not realise that what made Watson continue to sledge was the fact Gambhir kept taunting him back? Watson did put his arm out infront of Gambhir for a brief moment but pulled it away as soon as Gambhir was coming past him for the run. You can tell on replays how shocked Watson was after Gambhir elbowed him.

I am not defending Gambhir. So you can abandon that portion of your argument. And please, with Gambhir instigating Watson to continue to sledge. Watson was more frustrated with his lack of success than that.

I constantly see Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma do the exact same thing as Watson was doing at Gambhir but you don't see batsman like Matthew Hayden and Andrew Symonds running past them and giving them a good old hip 'n shoulder. Why? Because they have class and know that you don't go physically abusing players who sledge you.

Really? I have never seen Zaheer Khan or Ishant Sharma talk to a batsmen 3 times an over, over and over again over 2 days. They have a few periods where they go talk to the batsmen, or glare at them. Verbally, they don't really sledge unless there is a preceding conflict (such as Zaheer and Haddin). And it's laughable that you choose two of your most arrogant cricketers as having class. Gilchrist had class. Clark has class (at least internationally). Part of having class is respecting your opposition. Hayden at least has the fallback that he is pretty good, but Watson sledging someone is just frustration.

No player deserves to be physically abused and get punished for it unless they say something personal (about ones family or religion) or something racist.

Watson didn't get "physically abused". And you're just twisting words when you try and make Watson the victim with "get punished for [being physically abused]". Watson was fined because he continually abused the Indian batsmen. And to add to that, the arrogant prick pleaded innocent.

 

[Leggie]

Why then did Gambhir plead GUILTY???????????

As for the match referee: It is FAR easier for a match referee to SEE physical contact than to GUESS what is being said out on the field and whether it goes with the spirit of cricket or not. Chris Broad is not on the field, he watches TV closeup replays like the rest of us and he relies on the reports of the umpires for stuff like Watson's conduct. Yet he can see with his own 2 eyes that Gambhir hung his elbow out, it doesn't matter that the elbow didn't break any bones with it's force - it's the principle... Grow up :

Hung his elbow out? He may have shrugged him out of the way but hanging his elbow out is way over the top.

 

[Cricketman]

Watson deserved it and i'm sure with India on a way to victory here Gambhir won't mind the ban.

The best thing out of this - Badrinath will probably debut, with Dravid opening.

Sehwag
Dravid
Laxman
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Badrinath
Dhoni


Bwhaha!

 

[Leggie]

Watson deserved it and i'm sure with India on a way to victory here Gambhir won't mind the ban.

The best thing out of this - Badrinath will probably debut, with Dravid opening.

Sehwag
Dravid
Laxman
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Badrinath
Dhoni


Bwhaha!

Everyone knows what happened last time when Dravid opened against the Aussies, even if it was in Australia. I think Aakash Chopra will get the nod instead, A straight switch...Opener for Opener.

 

[Cricketman]

Dravid was in his worst form then. He's looking much better now and I see no reason why not to try the combination.

Badrinath is going to be playing once Ganguly retires. Might as well fit him in and get him into the scene in hopefully a deadrubber.

 

[SaiSrini]

What ....... no respect for Jumbo. He has served India for ages, i agree he is now old but that doesnt mean he can't serve now

Shall we bring back Kapil Dev, Bishan Singh Bedi, Erapalli Prasanna, VB Chandrasekar then?

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

How about some sentences in Hindi? (No offence, just for fun).

On Topic: How much turn is the pitch offering? I can't watch the match on TV (thanks NEO .

There was one ball from Sehwag to Ponting that pitched outside off stump, and almost took Dhoni's eyes off. Mishra turns the ball a lot, with when pitching on the rough, its turning square.

I was disappointed with Sachin. He bowled an over, and he just walked into bowl instead of his usual jog to bowl. It seems he doesnt bowl these days because of injury.

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

So looks like India didn't bowl very well then. Only 4 wickets with that much turn.

Kumble's captaincy, Kumble's bowling, Harbhajan's absence and the ball not reversing until very late in the day was the reason.

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...

Everyone knows what happened last time when Dravid opened against the Aussies, even if it was in Australia. I think Aakash Chopra will get the nod instead, A straight switch...Opener for Opener.

How can they bring in a batsmen when the outgoing guy is not injured?

Gambhir is likely to play the 4th test since he has now appealed against the ban, which is a good decision. He might not win it, but he can atleast play the 4th test (most likely unless the hearing is scheduled before Nov 6).

 

[.Mob]

I'd like to see you even talking in a bit of Hindi or Marathi, Never mind a whole paragraph.

Well considering this is a predominantly English forum (chetan joined knowing this fully), that statement counts for nothing. If it was universal then, yes, Highlander would be in the wrong.

I can't believe Katich hasn't been punished, if what Gambhir did is wrong, then Katich's Rugby on a Cricket field is even worse.

Cricman - or we could put in Badri as opener, would be a baptism of fire indeed, plus he's done it a lot of times for TN.

 

[sohum]

So looks like India didn't bowl very well then. Only 4 wickets with that much turn.

India bowled quite well. The rub of the green was clearly with the Aussies yesterday. There were a lot of edges that fell centimeters short and plenty of times where the ball missed the stumps by a whisker.

sohummisra added 2 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

Why then did Gambhir plead GUILTY???????????

Because he accepted his mistakes and isn't a twat like Watson, who thinks he was absolutely right in what he did. The Aussie players must be shown that they are the only people who sledge as an actual gameplan and that must be done with a stronger fine. This sets a precedent for Watson to abuse and insult every batsman that comes in. It doesn't help the game of cricket, either. You don't see players taunting each other verbally in sports like basketball or American football.

 

[rickyp]

Because he accepted his mistakes and isn't a twat like Watson, who thinks he was absolutely right in what he did. The Aussie players must be shown that they are the only people who sledge as an actual gameplan and that must be done with a stronger fine. This sets a precedent for Watson to abuse and insult every batsman that comes in. It doesn't help the game of cricket, either. You don't see players taunting each other verbally in sports like basketball or American football.

What an absolute joke!

Watson did the exact same thing that Sharma and Khan did to Lee and Watson when they were batting in the last test. If you took off your eye patch for one moment you would see that. The fact Gambhir threw out the elbow is an utter disgrace, and if anything deserved more than 1 game. Any form of intentional contact with a player from the other team is so far over the line it isn't funny. If Watson or Lee had thrown an elbow at Sharma or Khan there would be calls for far more than 1 match and you know it. Stop being so utterly biased and call the game like it is.

 

[sifter132]

sohummisra added 2 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...


Because he accepted his mistakes and isn't a twat like Watson, who thinks he was absolutely right in what he did. The Aussie players must be shown that they are the only people who sledge as an actual gameplan and that must be done with a stronger fine. This sets a precedent for Watson to abuse and insult every batsman that comes in. It doesn't help the game of cricket, either. You don't see players taunting each other verbally in sports like basketball or American football.

I agreed with you all the way up until the last sentence. That is just totally wrong. Americans taunt each other all the time, I'm watched many NFL Films videos and read plenty of basketball stories from players, as well as playing a lot myself (not in the NBA of course ). But, Americans invented the term trash talking, mainly through basketball and football - 'you can't guard me', or 'you can't block me' can end up escalating into more nasty taunts involving mothers etc., but it's exactly like cricket - most of the time the verbal stuff is taken in the spirit that it's intended. It's a cheap, non-physical way to vent frustrations or to break up an unfriendly atmosphere between two teams by sharing some jokes or funny insults. It also can be a way to disarm your opponent or dent their confidence. But I think if we saw more of the friendly interactions and jokes players share on the field instead of the odd-angry looking confrontation, we might have a different opinion of sledging. Example, look at Ponting on day 2 moved to block Gambhir jokingly and they both shared a good moment. Let's focus more on that please...

Anyway, that's the positive of sledging. Watson's was not positive - I'm not defending him here. I was merely pointing out that Leggie was incorrect when he said that Gambhir's elbow was an accident and I'm assuming he formed that opinion based on the interview Gambhir gave after play. Sure Gambhir said that as a first response, but I'm sure after seeing the footage, he thought - no one is going to believe that (apart from Leggie ), hence he pleads guilty because he knew he did it.

I agree with you that this is a good realisation to come to, players who have obviously broken the rules but maintain their innocence are tools (like Shane Watson). But in Watson's case (yeah I'll defend him slightly here) - how is he supposed to know when he has the crossed 'the line'?? Who makes the line? I'd say it's pretty much Billy Bowden's/Aleem Dar's line - it's up to them to make the report and if they don't think there was much in Watson's outbursts well what can Chris Broad do about it?

 

[sohum]

What an absolute joke!

Watson did the exact same thing that Sharma and Khan did to Lee and Watson when they were batting in the last test. If you took off your eye patch for one moment you would see that. The fact Gambhir threw out the elbow is an utter disgrace, and if anything deserved more than 1 game. Any form of intentional contact with a player from the other team is so far over the line it isn't funny. If Watson or Lee had thrown an elbow at Sharma or Khan there would be calls for far more than 1 match and you know it. Stop being so utterly biased and call the game like it is.

I never argued with Gambhir getting punished. The fact that more than 70% of your post is based on that shows that you don't have much to say against what I'm arguing and you're just bringing up a non-contentious point to attempt to bolster your post.

Sharma and Khan walked down and glared at the batsmen a lot. But you didn't see them engaging the batsmen in conversations over after over. It was more mental intimidation than demonstrating a small range of vocabulary. In contrast, Watson and Katich played elementary-school style intimidation, where apparently the more they could sledge, the better they were.

sohummisra added 5 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

I agreed with you all the way up until the last sentence. That is just totally wrong. Americans taunt each other all the time, I'm watched many NFL Films videos and read plenty of basketball stories from players, as well as playing a lot myself (not in the NBA of course ). But, Americans invented the term trash talking, mainly through basketball and football - 'you can't guard me', or 'you can't block me' can end up escalating into more nasty taunts involving mothers etc., but it's exactly like cricket - most of the time the verbal stuff is taken in the spirit that it's intended. It's a cheap, non-physical way to vent frustrations or to break up an unfriendly atmosphere between two teams by sharing some jokes or funny insults. It also can be a way to disarm your opponent or dent their confidence. But I think if we saw more of the friendly interactions and jokes players share on the field instead of the odd-angry looking confrontation, we might have a different opinion of sledging. Example, look at Ponting on day 2 moved to block Gambhir jokingly and they both shared a good moment. Let's focus more on that please...

What you're talking about is non-confrontational sledging, which I have no issues with and I'm sure both sides out there are doing. I meant that's the job of the slip-cordon and the keeper. These days, you rarely see two NBA players stand face to face with each other and abuse each other. Which is remarkable considering it's a contact sport. I'm sure all sportspersons use non-confrontational sledging... hell even I've done it when running coast to coast and breaking someone's ankles. However, you don't see players seeing eye to eye and insulting each other in the bare view of the camera. It may just be that cricket lends itself to that given the nature of the game, but it's not good to watch in such large doses.

I agree with you that this is a good realisation to come to, players who have obviously broken the rules but maintain their innocence are tools (like Shane Watson). But in Watson's case (yeah I'll defend him slightly here) - how is he supposed to know when he has the crossed 'the line'?? Who makes the line? I'd say it's pretty much Billy Bowden's/Aleem Dar's line - it's up to them to make the report and if they don't think there was much in Watson's outbursts well what can Chris Broad do about it?

I think it's pretty easy for Watson to tell where the line is seeing that he was the only Aussie bowler out there, apart from Katich, who constantly engaged the batsmen in conversations. Did he think players like Lee and Clark who are far better than him and have had far more success were just too stupid to use this "tactic"?

 

[karnog]

Fair enough for Gambhir. This plus his pakistan fine deserves the punishment. I think Watson deserved a 50% fine. And Kato deserved a fine too (10%). Mind you Sunil has a point when it comes to match fines and aggression on the field. The sub continent do get a rough deal. It did annoy me when Sourav was criticised for taking off his shirt at Lords while Flintoff's little scene generated hardly anything. But what Sunni forgets is that the Western teams have a raw deal when it comes to sledging that may insight a racial slur. A little less bias would help Gavskar's cause. He's right in saying there is assymetry in the world of cricket when it comes to player behaviour but it works both ways.

 

[aditya123]

I think Gambhir deserved the ban.He had committed the exact same offence once before (against Pakistan) and that could be the reason why he got the ban.
However, I do believe that Watson has gotten away a bit too cheaply here.
I would like the BCCI to not play the big bully in this issue because the fault lies with Gambhir.Physical contact is unacceptable.

Coming back to the state of the game.It all hinges on the first session.
Anything less than 4 wickets and the result would most likely be heading towards a draw.India could take at the most 35 overs more to bowl out Australia if they have to harbor aspirations of a win.

A 1st innings lead of around 150 (minimum) and 45 overs of batting in the second innings might just help us set a target of around 350 and give ourselves 3 sessions to bowl out the Aussies.

 

[SaiSrini]

Watson comes out positive against us... Its dangerous because they will look to eat into our lead as much as possible. We shouldnt allow it. But we cant go too defensive also. We got to get wickets, esp. that of Watson

Dhoni is still captaining. Kumble NOT ON??? Dont mind it anyways